How Emilia Hart Wrote Her Debut Novel While Working As A Lawyer

The New York Times bestselling author shares her journey to publishing her acclaimed historical novel, Weyward

Thank you for your patience as I’ve worked on my book proposal over the last month. I’m in the home stretch and plan to be back to my regular schedule here starting next week—which means that in addition to interviews, I’ll be back to writing more essays and providing updates on moving to Italy. Stay tuned!

This week, I spoke with Australian author Emilia Hart about the writing life. The (now) former lawyer published her debut historical novel, Weyward, to acclaim and commercial success.

Emilia Hart’s novel came to my attention through

The Shift With Sam Baker

who offered this description of Weyward:

I’ve been thinking a lot about language lately – who gets to choose it, who gets to use it and who they get to use it against. Witch is a case in point as the women of Weyward make clear. Meet Kate, fleeing a traumatic relationship in contemporary Cumbria; Violet refusing to be a “proper young lady” in 1942; and Altha, on trial for witchcraft in 1619. They live in three very different times, but their lives are inextricably intertwined.

I could say, “She had me at witch,” and it would be partly true. I do love “witch lit,” which are novels that take inspiration from historical events such as the witch trials of the medieval and early modern periods. But I also think Weyward is a particularly special book—the story is captivating, unpredictable and fast-paced, and the writing is gorgeous.

I was barely into the book when I realized I wanted to read everything Hart had written, only to discover this was her debut novel! (I’m happy to report that, as she shares in the interview, her second novel will be out next year.)

While the word “witch” can conjure images of gnarled fingers, flying broomsticks, and cauldrons, that’s not the kind of witch I’m talking about nor is it what Weyward is about (not that there would be anything wrong with that). I’m talking about women who were healers or wise women and who were persecuted and often killed for it. I wrote a little bit about this in my piece about crones.

My conversation with Hart focuses on how she transitioned from being a lawyer of ten years to a full-time novelist. I think many of the writers here will find it inspiring. Hart was able to compose her novel during lock down by writing each day during the hour she usually used for commuting.

It’s a reminder of what we can accomplish in even small pockets of time.

Hart shares how she came up with the idea for the novel (lots of serendipity) and found an agent. She knew from a young age that writing was what she loved but—like so many—didn’t see it as a realistic career option. Needless to say, she was pleasantly surprised to find out she was wrong about that.

I hope you enjoy our conversation as much has I did.

🤔 DID YOU KNOW that if you hit the HEART at the top or bottom of this page, it makes it easier for people to find Changing The Channel (and brightens my day)?

AI Generated Transcript

This transcript may have mistakes in it, but the full interview is available in the video above

Kirsten Powers (00:03):

Emilia thank you so much for being here with me. Where are you right now?

Emilia Hart (00:08):

So I'm currently in London, in the uk.

Kirsten Powers (00:11):

Okay. And that's where you live?

Emilia Hart (00:13):

Yes. Yeah, yeah, in southwest London.

Kirsten Powers (00:16):

Okay. So for those who are watching, this is Emilia Hart. She wrote this incredible book called Weyward, which I read and I don't have my copy with me because I gave it to somebody to read because I loved it so much. I've been telling everybody about it. And you can do a better job explaining what the book about is about than I can. So maybe you can just explain for people who haven't read it, what the sort of set up what the book's about.

Emilia Hart (00:40):

Of course. So Wayward is a historical novel. It's about three women who are connected across time by a ramshackle cottage in Cambria and the Secret it contains. So we follow the intertwining lives of Kate, who's a modern day woman fleeing abuse. Violet, a 1940s teenager, an alpha young woman embroiled in the witch trials of the 17th century. So all three women have to kind of embrace this powerful but dangerous legacy.

Kirsten Powers (01:10):

And it's just so beautifully written. I mean, really just such a beautiful writer. And what I wanted to talk to you about today was just about being a writer because you, in the book Jacket, it said that you, were you a lawyer or you studied law? What was your background before you wrote this?

Emilia Hart (01:32):

Yeah, so I worked as a lawyer for more than 10 years in the end. So I studied law in Australia and I moved to the UK in 2015. And then I worked as a private practice lawyer and also as a government lawyer. And that's what I was doing while I wrote Wayward in 2020. So it was a bit of a change in direction.

Kirsten Powers (01:55):

So when did you know you were a writer?

Emilia Hart (01:58):

I mean, to be honest, writing was always what I wanted to do. Becoming a novelist, that was my dream job. But I think that, I don't know, I was afraid to pursue it when I was younger and I was like, oh, but how will I pay my rent? And I should be sensible and I'll go to law school and be a lawyer. And I did really enjoy being a lawyer as well, but it wasn't like my passion in the same way. So I used to kind of scribble on the side. But yeah, 2020 was the year when I was like, I'm going to actually try and write a novel.

Kirsten Powers (02:34):

Was that because of Covid or was that just coincidental?

Emilia Hart (02:38):

I think, well, I had sort of thought because I turned 30 in 2020 and I thought, oh, this is something I want to achieve by the time I'm 30 and I'm not going to. So that kind of inspired me. And then yes, definitely. I think the strange thing about the lockdown was that it kind of enabled me that time because although I was very working remotely for the government at the time, I didn't have any commute because of course we were all stuck at home. And so I used that hour when I would've been commuting in the morning, so I was like, I'll just write a thousand words an hour.

Kirsten Powers (03:13):

I love that.

Emilia Hart (03:14):

And it really worked. It helped.

Kirsten Powers (03:18):

So that's incredible. So you were just writing for that hour every day, and how long did it take you to finish the novel or you're the first draft of the novel?

Emilia Hart (03:26):

So it took about three months to do the first draft.

Emilia Hart (03:30):

I spent quite a few months after that rewriting it and editing it and fixing it and trying to get feedback and that sort of thing. And then I did the Curtis Brown Creative three month online novel writing course, which is how I found my agent, and that was really helpful.

Kirsten Powers (03:49):

Oh, wow. So I don't know about that. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Emilia Hart (03:53):

Yeah, so it's a course that's run by basically the literary agency, Curtis Brown. They have their own writing school called Curtis Brown Creative. And they run these incredible writing courses and they have a whole range of different courses, depending on your budget, how much time you want to be studying for, but their online novel writing course, and they also offer it in person. It's amazing because it kind of connects you with other aspiring authors and you have a professional tutor and also you get to speak to literary agents from Curtis Brown. So I think it's really, really invaluable insight into the market and what it's like to actually be an author professionally. And then you learn to give feedback on other people's work, and that helps you become a better self editor, I think.

Kirsten Powers (04:49):

And is this something you have to apply for, or is it just you can sign up for it? Yes.

Emilia Hart (04:53):

So the novel writing courses, they have a three month and a six month one. I promise I'm not employed by 'em, but they are selective, so you have to apply, but they have a range of other courses that anyone can sign up for, so shorter courses and with more specific focuses. So I really

Kirsten Powers (05:16):

That's so interesting. And when did you come up with the idea for the novel?

Emilia Hart (05:22):

So almost exactly four years ago? So I think around about March, 2020. And the idea was like, it's so funny to say this, but I think the book would just not have been written if it weren't for the Pandemic, which is kind of strange because obviously that was such an awful time for the world.

(05:43):

We all found it hard in different ways, although I feel like I was very lucky, I was actually staying with some family friends in Cumbria for the Pandemic, and I think I have been there if it weren't for the Pandemic. And so I was lucky to have that natural beauty surrounding me and be inspired by that landscape. And then at the same time, I was learning about the witch trials that took place nearby in Lancaster in 1612. And then they seemed this kind of weird symmetry with hearing about the increase in domestic violence rates in lockdown. And I sort of felt like there was this echo there that I wanted to explore. And so I had this image in my head of this woman fleeing an abusive relationship and traveling to this isolated cottage and then discovering this power within herself that connected back to her ancestors.

Kirsten Powers (06:47):

How did you end up getting interested in following this information about the witch trials?

Emilia Hart (06:53):

So I think the friends I was staying with mentioned it to me at the time. And also I've always been fascinated by witches, lots of people and lots of women I think because, I mean, there's so much in the culture about witches obviously kind of just a perennially popular subject in novels, in plays, poetry and films of course. And I think that's because personally I think it's because the witch trial is this big trauma that as women we know it's in history and there's no one explanation for why this happened. It was this phenomenon that spanned two centuries and really diverse parts of Europe, like Southern Catholic, Germany, Protestant, Scotland. Obviously it ended up in North America and different legal systems. I don't know. And I think it's really interesting there is this mass persecution of women and maybe we haven't really worked through that.

Kirsten Powers (07:59):

Absolutely. And I was reading an article about how witch lit is getting popular, and so because a lot of women feel like women's rights are under attack and this sort of natural are naturally drawn to it. And I think also in popular culture, we're taught that witches are riding brooms with their black cats and casting spells on people when in fact, witches were just, as in your book, women who were healers or who had wisdom and were wise. And so I think that there is also, we're kind of in this phase of, I think women trying to reclaim that idea of being the wise woman and those kinds of things, which is because I find myself right now really drawn to these kinds of books, which is why I decided to read your book. I think it was recommended by someone, a British writer on, I hadn't heard about it, and I just immediately was like, oh yeah, I want to read this book. But it is interesting, the kind of serendipity of the way the idea came to you that I think that that's often what happens. These different things happen, and then it's a question of whether you act on it, right? Yeah,

Emilia Hart (09:21):

That's so true. And I think there's such a contrast with the experience of writing my first book and having this idea kind of materialize and everything almost seemed to fall into place. And then I've written another novel since then, which is coming out next year, and that was more a case of trying to find the idea, which I think is always the way. So yeah, it was really interesting how different those experiences were.

Kirsten Powers (09:49):

Can you say a little more about that? How did it feel when you had to come up with the idea versus having the idea kind of just land?

Emilia Hart (09:56):

Yeah, it was tricky. I mean, in the end, actually an idea did land, but I sort of knew I wanted to write about a particular period in history. So I wanted to write about the transportation of convicts from England and Ireland to Australia, and I just couldn't really find the story. So I, I think I wrote three or four drafts that do not bear any resemblance to the finished book. And then suddenly I was like, oh no, this is the story, it's this. And then once I had that, it just came really easily, well, not easily, but it was clear.

Kirsten Powers (10:41):

Is it when you let go a little bit that it came to you?

Emilia Hart (10:46):

I think so. I think obviously I feel that writing fiction and any kind of writing it is supposed to be hard. That's normal. But I think you can kind of tell when it doesn't feel right, when you are not enjoying it and you have to be writing something that you as a reader would want to read. You have to be wanting to follow the story yourself. And so I almost feel like when it's really working, it feels like you're kind of excavating something that already exists.

Kirsten Powers (11:18):

Yes, totally. Do you ever read Julie Cameron's Artist's Way?

Emilia Hart (11:22):

No, I have heard of

Kirsten Powers (11:24):

You. Okay. Yeah, so I actually interviewed her recently as well, but this is a lot of what she talks about is just that most artists will ultimately, when you ask them, will say, it kind of came from outside of me. Ultimately, it just sort of was like appeared and that you have to just create the circumstances for that to happen. And so your description of Suddenly I'm in beautiful surroundings and I'm in the country and I'm in this place. And then my friends mentioned this thing that's very true to what she describes and that it will tend to come. And that often we try to force something and it just won't come. And then when you kind of let go and say, okay, I'll let it come through, it will come through. It's just interesting to hear that that's the way that it happened. Did you have any feeling that you were going to have this spectacular success with this book when you wrote it?

Emilia Hart (12:30):

I mean, honestly, it's just really beyond anything I could have imagined. I mean, I did think, oh, I think this might be good. I think I might be able to get this published. So it's all been, yeah, I mean, I sort of feel like I can't even now think about it too much or I'll just freak out. And I had to really, especially when I was writing the second book, I was like, I just can't have to pretend none of this is happening, because you can kind of spook yourself, I think. But yeah, no, I feel really lucky. But yeah, I really didn't expect that, although I guess I knew that I was writing about something that was feeling more and more relevant as I was writing everything that happened with Roe v Wade and stuff.

Kirsten Powers (13:21):

Obviously the book's wonderful and your beautiful writer, and it's a wonderful story. But then there are lots of beautiful writers with wonderful stories and the books don't do as well as your book has done. Was there something in particular that do you think helped to get it out into the, was a word of mouth kind of thing, or was there something that, did some famous person say Everybody should read this book, or did anything like that happen?

Emilia Hart (13:51):

Not that I know of, but I think I was really lucky because I had, in the UK and the US I've had amazing publishers and I think they really created such wide reaching publicity campaigns for the book. And so I'm really lucky with that. And then also something I think that really helped in terms of creating word of mouth in the US was I was part of the Book of the Month Subscription Box, which is the oldest subscription box in America. So it's been running since I think 1926. And something that I love about this is that the first book they ever picked was Lolly Willows, which is a book that I kind of referenced in way.

Kirsten Powers (14:34):

Oh, how neat.

Emilia Hart (14:35):

Yeah. So that felt really, yeah, circle. But I think that definitely helped because it meant that a lot more people read the book than might have otherwise done. So you definitely had a lot of luck.

Kirsten Powers (14:49):

Well, and when you were writing it, were people around you supportive and encouraging it?

Emilia Hart (14:55):

Yeah, definitely. My mom, she read so many different versions and it's still the case with the second book. She reads everything. And yeah, I've had some, I've been very lucky to have some really supportive friends, and I've now, my boyfriend's very supportive as well. And I've also got some older friends now, and I think that really helps to share the, they just kind of understand what it's like, share

Kirsten Powers (15:23):

The struggle. Yeah. Yeah. And so are you now not going to be a lawyer anymore, are you? I'm not a lawyer, a full-time writer.

Emilia Hart (15:34):

My best friends are still lawyers, and they're like, you'll always be a lawyer, I guess technically that's true, but I'm not working as a lawyer right now. So I've been writing full-time for the last couple of years, which felt like a scary decision. And at the time I wasn't sure if it was a mistake or not, but now I feel like, okay, that was probably the right thing to do.

Kirsten Powers (15:57):

Yeah. And do you wish that you had written the book sooner, believed that you could be a writer sooner? Or does it not matter? Do you feel like the timing just worked out the way it was supposed to?

Emilia Hart (16:09):

I think it worked out how it was supposed to. I don't think I would've been ready any earlier in my life. I wrote lots of short stories and I read constantly. And I think that really, I couldn't, that really prepared me. That was the apprenticeship, if that makes sense.

Kirsten Powers (16:27):

Does makes sense. Yeah. A lot of the people who will be watching this are aspiring writers. What advice would you give to them?

Emilia Hart (16:39):

I mean, I think if you're an aspiring writer, you are already reading a lot, so I probably don't need to say that, but that's the thing that I think is the most crucial thing. The second thing would be if you're working on something now, a lot of people have a kind of daily word count, and that doesn't work for everyone. It worked for me writing one of my books, but not for the next one. But I think if you can find a way to stay in the world of your story every day, even if it's only for 10 minutes, just by daydreaming about a scene or writing one paragraph, I think that really helps with that kind of immersion. And then my third piece of advice would be to be brave and to show people you're writing and get feedback.

Kirsten Powers (17:28):

Yeah, that's hard. And that's what keeps a lot of people blocked. They don't actually publish it on Substack or whatever, show it to people or show it to people that they know. So the process with your second book, you're saying is very different than your first book. Can you say a little bit about that?

Emilia Hart (17:49):

Well, in terms of the writing process, I mean, partly it, there were lots of different versions that I wrote, but with the version that ended up being the book. So I had this superstition where I thought that I had to write every day until I had a first draft. And that's what I had done for the previous three versions, none of which for the right story. But with the final version of the book, I wrote the first 20,000 words, and then I showed it, and I just made sure it was really setting something up perfectly. And then I showed it to my agent. I was like, do I keep going? What do you think? And she was like, yes. And that really helped. She was like, yes, this is it. Keep going. And it didn't matter that I wasn't cursed because I hadn't written every day until the end. I still was able to finish it. Yeah.

Kirsten Powers (18:46):

And then finally, I need to let you go. I could talk to you in May. Were there any books in particular? You mentioned there was that one book, but were there other books that helped prepare you to write what you wrote that you think you were thinking about when you were writing or anything like that? Yeah,

Emilia Hart (19:07):

Definitely. There were a few. So I think one that was a big influence was the 13th Tale by Diane Setterfield, because it was one of my favorite books when I was younger, and I've read it so many times. And I think it's a dual timeline novel about a reclusive novelist. And then there's this story of this mysterious big house and these mysterious sisters who live there. But I think the way that she interweaves the two timelines is really effective. And that was what I was trying to emulate with Wayward. And then also Burial Rights by Hannah Kent had a big influence as well. I dunno if you've read it, but it's about a woman, about the last woman to be executed for murder in Iceland in the 18 hundreds. Oh, wow. So she was a real person called Agnes Magnus daughter, I think. And the novel is about her experiences of awaiting her fate. And it's told in the first person, and as the reader, you sort of don't know if she's innocent or guilty as you're reading it. And so that really influenced Alpha's first person narrative.

(20:22):

And then the final one would be a book called Ghost Wall by Sarah Moss, which is such a different book to weigh with. So I always feel weird when I say that it influenced me, but it really did. It's quite a recent novel. So it came out a few years ago, quite a slim novel. It's set in the seventies, but it's about a teenage girl, and she goes with her kind of controlling father to this archeological dig in Northumberland. But the novel opens with this prologue of a human sacrifice of a young girl in iron and Age Britain. And it really kind of sets up this theme of the echo of misogyny and because that was the theme I also wanted to explore. I had that in mind a lot when I was writing. Where would,

Kirsten Powers (21:12):

Oh, well, I'll definitely check out all those books. When can we look for your latest book and do you have a title?

Emilia Hart (21:19):

I do have a title. I'm not sure if I can share it just yet, but imminently. And it is coming out early 2025.

Kirsten Powers (21:29):

I can't wait. I mean, I told you when I emailed you, I think I was maybe 20 pages in the book, and I was already like, what else has she written? I have to read more of her books. And then I looked and I was like, what? This is her first novel. This is incredible. So yeah, I can't wait. And plus, it just sounds like such a fascinating topic. So thank you so much for spending time with me and everybody who's watching today. I'm sure it's going to be very encouraging, inspiring to everybody.