I’ve been a “fan” for a long time, but I don’t think I’ve ever read anything from you that resonated with me more than this “it’s complicated” piece. I share all of your sentiments - and I am actually employed by a Catholic parish as an adult educator. I said to one of my adult learning groups last week that the future of the church, in my opinion, depends on an ideological shift from catechism to mysticism. We will die if we don’t make it. I’m not sure that would be a bad thing, as dying leads to rising! Keep the faith - maybe not the religion, but the faith. Peace!
wow this means so much to me! I'm sure you know the Karl Rahner quote: 'the Christian of the future will be a mystic or will not be a Christian any more." I think this is true.
Kirsten, this is one of the most thoughtful and thought-filled essays I've read in quite a while.
I've been a huge fan, for many years, of both John Philip Newell and Fr. Richard Rohr. I am Scottish by birth so Celtic Spirituality comes naturally to me. I've lived in the US for many years.
The Church, especially the Roman Church, descended from a rebranding of the old Roman Empire. Adding "Holy" as part of its title, gave it a cache it did not earn on its own merits. The Protestant Reformation wasn't much help either -- adding its own layer of dogma to the world's pain.
I'm an ordained Elder in the Presbyterian Church and commissioned as a Lay Pastor -- though I'm sure they'd love to strip me of both. A few years ago, I hit a wall. I struggled with what the capital "C" church had become -- obsessed with its own survival and worried more about rules than ministry. Perhaps it should die for a deeper, more spiritually based community to arise. In other words, a new Easter.
I've printed today's essay, because I want to sit with it, reflect on it, and pray for you (and my) continued journeys. I also pray for those of question and don't settle for the easy answers in front of us.
Be well and enjoy your time with John Philip Newell. You're in for something special.
Hello Kirsten. There was a book published in the past couple of years that might be interesting to you and anyone else who is interested in mysticism. Its title is "The Mysticism of the Present Moment" and it was written by José Tolentino de Mendonça, the Librarian of the Vatican. Despite that fact, the book is not really doctrinaire and I believe that it could be read profitably by people of many different faiths and even no faith at all. Basically, the author's premise is that, in contrast to the Western spiritual tradition which has held that mystical union requires a radical turning away from the world, it is actually possible to experience God directly in contact with mundane reality, through our own five senses, provided that we have the proper orientation and disposition. As one would expect, there are many biblical passages, but they are mingled with the beautiful writings of non-western authors and poets both male and female. In fact, one of the most moving passages in the book is taken from a letter written by Rosa Luxembourg right before she was executed. "The Mysticism of the Present Moment" is a short work, best read very slowly and I highly recommend it to anyone who is trying to navigate this treacherous path to the Transcendent Other.
Kirsten, as always I admire and appreciate your honest vulnerability. Your observations and experience with religion resonate with so many. Any religion and institution including the most intimate of marriage is open to abuse and corruption. Yet they are also the containers of great spiritual and relational potential. So much depends on the humility and love for God and Neighbor on the part of everyone involved. I sense that many of your concerns with religion have to do with rules and obligations placed on others rather than the invitations to grow in grace and truth. May your journey continue to better know God and others and yourself.
yes that is correct. As I mentioned, I think there is good in religion and specifically in the Christian religion. But there is a lot that is harmful and oppressive too. It's holding that tension. As I'm sure you know, many of the contemplative teachers in the West are Catholic. It has deep Catholic roots. And yet most Christians and Catholics are not even aware of this but they can tell you what the "rules" are for being a Christian or Catholic.
Are you in Ireland now? I hope you have a good retreat but i hope even more so that you don't leave Christianity now or in the future! I go to Lough Derg every year but i hate it! The 3 day pilgrimage is very tough but worth it.
Not from a Catholic background but Meister Eckhart's deep, mystic sermons on the nature of God have always resonated with my inner voice. 800 years ago he used "she" as the primary reference to soul. Whenever I am stressed or cannot sleep, I read or listen to one or more of his amazing sermons. Within minutes he takes me back to my center.
With Irish being the larger part of my Euro-mix makeup, I found myself embracing Catholicism as if it was the requisite part of the nationality (and I suppose in some places in Ireland, it is) but, as I got older, as with you, many things just didn’t sit right with me. Now I’m probably in the agnostic camp if I had to label it, and tbh, it’s left a bit of a spiritual void for me. So, no pressure, but I look forward to hearing about your quest for spirituality in Ireland.
yes i think a lot of people feel that spiritual void. It feels like the options are be religious or be "woo woo" or be nothing. But there are other options that are rooted in tradition and without the problems that can come with religion. Not sure if you have read Richard Rohr but he's always a good place to start for recovering Catholics :-)
Kirsten, you are right about the tremendous impact Catholic writers and mystics have had on contemplative Christianity. My wife and I have been greatly infuenced by them as well as contemporary leaders like Richard Rohr and our mutual friend Phileena. You may be interested in a book my wife (Alice Fryling) wrote called "Aging Faithfully: The Holy Invitation of Growing Older" which draws a lot upon contemplative Christian wisdom and faith for living meaningfully in the second half (or third-third!) of life.
Thank you for your thoughts on being Christian. You have put into words exactly what I have been experiencing. I look forward to your report on your upcoming retreat.
Thank you Kirsten for sharing your thoughts and feelings openly and honestly. Reading your experiences regarding daily Mass and weekly confession brought back memories of my Mother who attended daily Mass and went t o confession regularly, but felt that a greater connection was missing. So bravo for going on this retreat. I’ve been to Ireland and there definitely are liminal spaces there, and here in Virginia or New York. I hope you find that connection and come back with a gladness of heart.
I’m reading Killers of the Flower Moon right now. In the book, there’s sometimes mention of the Osage tribe’s belief in the Great Mystery. I love that.
So enjoying your posts, it’s like being part of an an interesting conversation. Can’t wait to hear about your retreat - went on a similar one years ago which was so heart expanding and grounding.
This article resonates with me too. I have significant Irish and Scottish ancestral lines, although my Y chromosome is of Viking origin. Celtic Christianity interests me because it has origins and spirituality that preceded the influences of the Roman Empire.
We visit our family in the UK every year and I would like to visit the ancient Lindisfarne area. Is that a good source of Celtic Christianity? I know I have blind spots in my faith and I look forward to reading more of your insights.
Kirsten,
I’ve been a “fan” for a long time, but I don’t think I’ve ever read anything from you that resonated with me more than this “it’s complicated” piece. I share all of your sentiments - and I am actually employed by a Catholic parish as an adult educator. I said to one of my adult learning groups last week that the future of the church, in my opinion, depends on an ideological shift from catechism to mysticism. We will die if we don’t make it. I’m not sure that would be a bad thing, as dying leads to rising! Keep the faith - maybe not the religion, but the faith. Peace!
wow this means so much to me! I'm sure you know the Karl Rahner quote: 'the Christian of the future will be a mystic or will not be a Christian any more." I think this is true.
Kirsten, this is one of the most thoughtful and thought-filled essays I've read in quite a while.
I've been a huge fan, for many years, of both John Philip Newell and Fr. Richard Rohr. I am Scottish by birth so Celtic Spirituality comes naturally to me. I've lived in the US for many years.
The Church, especially the Roman Church, descended from a rebranding of the old Roman Empire. Adding "Holy" as part of its title, gave it a cache it did not earn on its own merits. The Protestant Reformation wasn't much help either -- adding its own layer of dogma to the world's pain.
I'm an ordained Elder in the Presbyterian Church and commissioned as a Lay Pastor -- though I'm sure they'd love to strip me of both. A few years ago, I hit a wall. I struggled with what the capital "C" church had become -- obsessed with its own survival and worried more about rules than ministry. Perhaps it should die for a deeper, more spiritually based community to arise. In other words, a new Easter.
I've printed today's essay, because I want to sit with it, reflect on it, and pray for you (and my) continued journeys. I also pray for those of question and don't settle for the easy answers in front of us.
Be well and enjoy your time with John Philip Newell. You're in for something special.
Wow I"m so honored that you printed this out! I related to everything you said. And thank you for your prayers.
Hello Kirsten. There was a book published in the past couple of years that might be interesting to you and anyone else who is interested in mysticism. Its title is "The Mysticism of the Present Moment" and it was written by José Tolentino de Mendonça, the Librarian of the Vatican. Despite that fact, the book is not really doctrinaire and I believe that it could be read profitably by people of many different faiths and even no faith at all. Basically, the author's premise is that, in contrast to the Western spiritual tradition which has held that mystical union requires a radical turning away from the world, it is actually possible to experience God directly in contact with mundane reality, through our own five senses, provided that we have the proper orientation and disposition. As one would expect, there are many biblical passages, but they are mingled with the beautiful writings of non-western authors and poets both male and female. In fact, one of the most moving passages in the book is taken from a letter written by Rosa Luxembourg right before she was executed. "The Mysticism of the Present Moment" is a short work, best read very slowly and I highly recommend it to anyone who is trying to navigate this treacherous path to the Transcendent Other.
Thanks for the recommendation -- i'll check it out!
Kirsten, as always I admire and appreciate your honest vulnerability. Your observations and experience with religion resonate with so many. Any religion and institution including the most intimate of marriage is open to abuse and corruption. Yet they are also the containers of great spiritual and relational potential. So much depends on the humility and love for God and Neighbor on the part of everyone involved. I sense that many of your concerns with religion have to do with rules and obligations placed on others rather than the invitations to grow in grace and truth. May your journey continue to better know God and others and yourself.
yes that is correct. As I mentioned, I think there is good in religion and specifically in the Christian religion. But there is a lot that is harmful and oppressive too. It's holding that tension. As I'm sure you know, many of the contemplative teachers in the West are Catholic. It has deep Catholic roots. And yet most Christians and Catholics are not even aware of this but they can tell you what the "rules" are for being a Christian or Catholic.
Hi Kirsten
Padraic kelly living here in Dublin.
Are you in Ireland now? I hope you have a good retreat but i hope even more so that you don't leave Christianity now or in the future! I go to Lough Derg every year but i hate it! The 3 day pilgrimage is very tough but worth it.
No I wish I was in Ireland! ☘️
Not from a Catholic background but Meister Eckhart's deep, mystic sermons on the nature of God have always resonated with my inner voice. 800 years ago he used "she" as the primary reference to soul. Whenever I am stressed or cannot sleep, I read or listen to one or more of his amazing sermons. Within minutes he takes me back to my center.
This was so thoughtful. You kind of sound like Thomas Paine in a way. He wrote something like, My mind is my church. Or maybe I missed the point.
With Irish being the larger part of my Euro-mix makeup, I found myself embracing Catholicism as if it was the requisite part of the nationality (and I suppose in some places in Ireland, it is) but, as I got older, as with you, many things just didn’t sit right with me. Now I’m probably in the agnostic camp if I had to label it, and tbh, it’s left a bit of a spiritual void for me. So, no pressure, but I look forward to hearing about your quest for spirituality in Ireland.
yes i think a lot of people feel that spiritual void. It feels like the options are be religious or be "woo woo" or be nothing. But there are other options that are rooted in tradition and without the problems that can come with religion. Not sure if you have read Richard Rohr but he's always a good place to start for recovering Catholics :-)
Kirsten, you are right about the tremendous impact Catholic writers and mystics have had on contemplative Christianity. My wife and I have been greatly infuenced by them as well as contemporary leaders like Richard Rohr and our mutual friend Phileena. You may be interested in a book my wife (Alice Fryling) wrote called "Aging Faithfully: The Holy Invitation of Growing Older" which draws a lot upon contemplative Christian wisdom and faith for living meaningfully in the second half (or third-third!) of life.
Thank you for your thoughts on being Christian. You have put into words exactly what I have been experiencing. I look forward to your report on your upcoming retreat.
I’m so glad!! 🙏
Thank you Kirsten for sharing your thoughts and feelings openly and honestly. Reading your experiences regarding daily Mass and weekly confession brought back memories of my Mother who attended daily Mass and went t o confession regularly, but felt that a greater connection was missing. So bravo for going on this retreat. I’ve been to Ireland and there definitely are liminal spaces there, and here in Virginia or New York. I hope you find that connection and come back with a gladness of heart.
You're doing some more very interesting thinking these days, Kirsten. Brava!
💜💜💜
I’m reading Killers of the Flower Moon right now. In the book, there’s sometimes mention of the Osage tribe’s belief in the Great Mystery. I love that.
I love that 💜
So enjoying your posts, it’s like being part of an an interesting conversation. Can’t wait to hear about your retreat - went on a similar one years ago which was so heart expanding and grounding.
This is best compliment! TY 🙏
This article resonates with me too. I have significant Irish and Scottish ancestral lines, although my Y chromosome is of Viking origin. Celtic Christianity interests me because it has origins and spirituality that preceded the influences of the Roman Empire.
We visit our family in the UK every year and I would like to visit the ancient Lindisfarne area. Is that a good source of Celtic Christianity? I know I have blind spots in my faith and I look forward to reading more of your insights.
I have not read him, but I certainly will. Thank you.