Hi Kirsten. I live in Italy and just for information, whilst the healthcare system is excellent, it has just gone up to a minimum of €2000 a year (means tested so could be more) for those who don’t have permanent residency. It is also necessary to pay at least a small amount towards any form of medical examination outside of seeing your GP (usually about €30-50). The one other thing that is excellent though is private sector medical investigations - I had an off the cuff chest exam the other day - full investigative work with an MRI €120!!! Finally you also have to pay for any medication that isn’t for ‘life threatening’ situation s. So blood pressure pills are free, pills for depression (for example) are not. You can buy generic versions of most drugs which are significantly cheaper though. You may of course already know all this so my apologies if that’s the case!
Honestly, this sounds heavenly I can’t imagine only spending that little on healthcare. I currently spend $10,000 a year just on my health insurance premium which covers almost nothing since many of my drs are out of network and requires co-pays for everything for the few who are in network—not to mention the deductibles.
The other thing I forgot to say is that you don’t need to be referred by a GP to attend a private clinic which we find an amazing freedom! In the U.K. it’s impossible to see a specialist without a referral which in itself can take weeks or even months. In Italy, you take a lot more responsibility for your own health so if you think your chest needs a check up (as I did because I have lung problems), you give them a call and you go - results are immediate. Finally - all receipts for medical care can be submitted for up to 19% tax relief (if you are going to be taxable in Italy). Hope this is helpful!
Just catching up on your content, Kirsten (apologies, ‘24 has already been a year) and I particularly enjoyed this interview. Specifically, the importance of allowing time to regenerate, but also understanding the reality that prohibits many of us from taking that needed space. As you both noted, how we pay for our healthcare is probably the most limiting factor. I mean what good is a nest egg if it can be exhausted immediately on unexpected healthcare expenses? And how does one take extensive leave from the work cycle when tied to it by health insurance? I’m a city firefighter and we do have a decent pension after 30 years of service, but many of us stay on well beyond that time just because often we won’t yet qualify for Medicare. I happen to be in the Army Reserve as well and have our health insurance through it, which is far less expensive and covers more (I sing the praises of govt-provided healthcare), but, even then, the retiree healthcare doesn’t kick in until 60, so I’m locked into that job longer than the fire dept. All this to say, I’ve been dabbling in stoicism a bit lately, and given the world we live in and our limited ability to change it, I’m beginning to think that they may very well have a point with their “if it can be endured, then endure it” approach.
An excellent and thought provoking conversation. Thank you. I turned 65 last year and my wife does so this year. Very timely. Right now, we’re spending four weeks touring Australia and New Zealand. We’re taking a “recovery morning” today to recharge after three very active days of sightseeing. Wishing a g’day to everyone!
I’m not going to lie, as someone who works a 9-5 (or really, an 8-5), and consider myself lucky to have this steady employment, with health insurance and paid time off, knowing that so many people don’t have that but instead are forced to cobble together multiple jobs to put a roof over their heads, and will likely need to do that way beyond 65, this interview felt… a tad tone-deaf. And it’s not becuz I’m jealous. I hope hope hope when I’m 65, I’ll be able to slow down some, though I won’t be able to even consider true retirement until 67… DBB was able to shore up a nest egg to take six months to write in her shed and TRAVEL… that’s awesome. I could maybe save up six months living expenses but I still couldn’t walk away from my employment and expect to survive after that best egg was depleted, and who’d then hire me at 65 and a 1/2?? All the talk of Scripture… when the majority of people can’t lay fallow for more than a week at a time, in a country that has little to no safety nets… I’m not jealous. I’m not even bitter. I’m just surprised a bit.
It’s like listening to someone talk about their privilege, even if they busted their butt to achieve it.
I hear you. But I think if you look at my work and Dianas work in total you would see that we think what you’re describing is huge problem and that we speak about that and that we have worked to try to change that and will continue to work to change that.
Retirement shouldn’t be a luxury, taking time off shouldn’t be a luxury, and it isn’t in many of our peer countries. I don’t think the fact that other Americans aren’t able to do this—which is a tragedy in my mind— is a reason that everybody should just grind themselves down. I think of people can make it work for them they should and I will always applaud it. She is talking about Scripture bc she is critiquing our culture and it’s an important critique and one I make here all the time. She is also right that we are not designed to work all the time and forever and she’s pointing to the wisdom of Scripture that says that.
Hi Kirsten. I live in Italy and just for information, whilst the healthcare system is excellent, it has just gone up to a minimum of €2000 a year (means tested so could be more) for those who don’t have permanent residency. It is also necessary to pay at least a small amount towards any form of medical examination outside of seeing your GP (usually about €30-50). The one other thing that is excellent though is private sector medical investigations - I had an off the cuff chest exam the other day - full investigative work with an MRI €120!!! Finally you also have to pay for any medication that isn’t for ‘life threatening’ situation s. So blood pressure pills are free, pills for depression (for example) are not. You can buy generic versions of most drugs which are significantly cheaper though. You may of course already know all this so my apologies if that’s the case!
Honestly, this sounds heavenly I can’t imagine only spending that little on healthcare. I currently spend $10,000 a year just on my health insurance premium which covers almost nothing since many of my drs are out of network and requires co-pays for everything for the few who are in network—not to mention the deductibles.
The other thing I forgot to say is that you don’t need to be referred by a GP to attend a private clinic which we find an amazing freedom! In the U.K. it’s impossible to see a specialist without a referral which in itself can take weeks or even months. In Italy, you take a lot more responsibility for your own health so if you think your chest needs a check up (as I did because I have lung problems), you give them a call and you go - results are immediate. Finally - all receipts for medical care can be submitted for up to 19% tax relief (if you are going to be taxable in Italy). Hope this is helpful!
Yep it’s the same in the US!
Just catching up on your content, Kirsten (apologies, ‘24 has already been a year) and I particularly enjoyed this interview. Specifically, the importance of allowing time to regenerate, but also understanding the reality that prohibits many of us from taking that needed space. As you both noted, how we pay for our healthcare is probably the most limiting factor. I mean what good is a nest egg if it can be exhausted immediately on unexpected healthcare expenses? And how does one take extensive leave from the work cycle when tied to it by health insurance? I’m a city firefighter and we do have a decent pension after 30 years of service, but many of us stay on well beyond that time just because often we won’t yet qualify for Medicare. I happen to be in the Army Reserve as well and have our health insurance through it, which is far less expensive and covers more (I sing the praises of govt-provided healthcare), but, even then, the retiree healthcare doesn’t kick in until 60, so I’m locked into that job longer than the fire dept. All this to say, I’ve been dabbling in stoicism a bit lately, and given the world we live in and our limited ability to change it, I’m beginning to think that they may very well have a point with their “if it can be endured, then endure it” approach.
An excellent and thought provoking conversation. Thank you. I turned 65 last year and my wife does so this year. Very timely. Right now, we’re spending four weeks touring Australia and New Zealand. We’re taking a “recovery morning” today to recharge after three very active days of sightseeing. Wishing a g’day to everyone!
I’m not going to lie, as someone who works a 9-5 (or really, an 8-5), and consider myself lucky to have this steady employment, with health insurance and paid time off, knowing that so many people don’t have that but instead are forced to cobble together multiple jobs to put a roof over their heads, and will likely need to do that way beyond 65, this interview felt… a tad tone-deaf. And it’s not becuz I’m jealous. I hope hope hope when I’m 65, I’ll be able to slow down some, though I won’t be able to even consider true retirement until 67… DBB was able to shore up a nest egg to take six months to write in her shed and TRAVEL… that’s awesome. I could maybe save up six months living expenses but I still couldn’t walk away from my employment and expect to survive after that best egg was depleted, and who’d then hire me at 65 and a 1/2?? All the talk of Scripture… when the majority of people can’t lay fallow for more than a week at a time, in a country that has little to no safety nets… I’m not jealous. I’m not even bitter. I’m just surprised a bit.
It’s like listening to someone talk about their privilege, even if they busted their butt to achieve it.
I hear you. But I think if you look at my work and Dianas work in total you would see that we think what you’re describing is huge problem and that we speak about that and that we have worked to try to change that and will continue to work to change that.
Retirement shouldn’t be a luxury, taking time off shouldn’t be a luxury, and it isn’t in many of our peer countries. I don’t think the fact that other Americans aren’t able to do this—which is a tragedy in my mind— is a reason that everybody should just grind themselves down. I think of people can make it work for them they should and I will always applaud it. She is talking about Scripture bc she is critiquing our culture and it’s an important critique and one I make here all the time. She is also right that we are not designed to work all the time and forever and she’s pointing to the wisdom of Scripture that says that.