This is EXACTLY what I’m dealing with. After realizing everything I was working so hard for 1) wouldn’t make me happy and 2) was causing serious health issues, I took a step back. But I’m finding taking a step back isn’t enough. How do I step OUT of this? Take a year off work? Find a job I can do without feeling this existential burnout? It’s almost like I’ve had this taste - and I want MORE. I want more freedom and more rest very primally. I guess like everything good in life it won’t come easy. But is there anyone who has done this within the US? Is the ONLY answer leaving?
I am Italian-American and was raised in both places. I am now 44 and my partner and children and I have also lived many years in both places. I am not and never have been rich though. During my childhood years, my family's income was far below the poverty line. And in my adult life, my partner and I have always lived on one income because early on we made the decision to have me spend my time unschooling our kids. My partner works remotely and the kids schooling being so flexible has been a privilege that I am so grateful to have. However all that said, we don't have anything worked out financially for retirement and healthcare here in the States is always precarious at best.
I love Italy with all my heart and it truly is home for me. However my partner struggled to learn the language during our years there and feels more at home in the States, so for now we are back in a very small town in North Carolina. We do still own a very small home in the Abruzzo region of Italy and this year we bought a property here in NC with our two oldest daughters. We share the big house on the property with our two still minor kids and our oldest daughter and her soon to arrive fiance. Our second daughter is in a little cottage on the back of the property. Our kids are all gen z, and owning homes seemed so out of reach for them in this economy. By sharing our housing expenses, we are all able to breath a little easier, work a little less and travel more. I know that multi-generational housing wouldn't be for everyone but it really works for us, and now we all can't wait for the eventual grandchildren to get here.
In Italy we have the concept of the "slow life", and obviously I'm biased to believing that is best achieved in Italy, home of the best food and with healthcare covered. However even if you have no desire to live abroad, it is still completely possible to incorporate that concept into your life. Affordable small towns still exist in the States, ours is just one hour from a large metro area with an International airport. In my opinion the "slow life" can be less about where you live and more about making life choices intentionally. Be very deliberate in choosing how to spend your time, and live with more people and less stuff. Obviously not everyone wants to forego having a career to unschool their kids, and not everyone wants to buy a house with their adult children, that is just what has worked for us. Don't be afraid to make some unconventional choices and forge your own path. Everyone can figure out what does work for them and live their own "slow life".
I think there must be people who have done this in the US. We actually first tried to find a place in the US to move but unfortunately we didn’t start looking until 2021 and by then prices even in places that used to be really livable had exploded. I do know there are still nice places though that are livable. Cleveland is one of those places. Or at least that’s what I’ve heard. If you feel strongly, this is something you want to do I would start talking to other people about it and doing research. I think there are a lot of people who feel the way we feel and people found different solutions than the one I found.
Kirsten, thank you for this article. Your thoughts are personally meaningful and your position cogent.
I have spent 41 years in military and federal government employment. I can speak first hand on the culture of unremitting work as part of an American identity or ethos.
I am particulary struck by the accumulated evidence the medical establishment has documented over the years, as your article alludes to. Despite that, we literally continue to kill outselves.
I spent my youth and career being flogged by this bloody Calvinist work ethic. I compensated by being being an able worker and manager but refusing to go the “extra mile” as an expected matter of course.
I learned quickly the reward for excellence was exploitation and then flogging to exhaustion.
And I feel guilty for saving myself.
I lived in Europe for ten years and am well aware of the gulf between the US and European work models. By and large, they are a humanitarian establishment by comparison.
I spent a further 21 years working for INS/USCIS where I came into close proximity with like European organizations. How they treated their own employees in comparison to ours was like a bucket of ice water over the head.
I believe most of us don’t understand how killing ourselves for our employer has become, not widespread, but de rigueur.
Keep up the great analysis of life but don’t let your work or us, for that matter, flog you to insensibility.
So well put: "I learned quickly the reward for excellence was exploitation and then flogging to exhaustion." You have so eloquently summed up the problem here. I wonder if some of us thought--even unconsciously-- that if we were loyal and good employees we would be taken care of since that used to be the social compact without realizing that we would be thrown overboard the minute the shareholders wanted a sacrifice.
There was a time, perhaps in the 50s,60s, and 70s when a career worker could expect a life long career from one company. Perhaps their entire career could be summed up by a “gold watch” at the end but, at least, the contract between employer and employee was one that provided stability and dependability. And something that’s virtually absent today: work that fostered a happy life.
yes and this was before work was your entire life and identity. My parents had this -- they were professors at the University of Alaska for 40 years and worked normal hours and had a life outside of work, even though they were passionate about their work and even though they also often worked all summer because they were archeologists so would have digs in various parts of Alaska.
I don’t think so. This all reminds me of a great article I read on The Atlantic a while back on “workism”. It’s about purpose. Whatever we do for q living is, in the US, the sole source of our purpose, pride, identity. We all want to feel like we belong. The sick thing, in the US, is that we look for that sense of belonging where we shouldn’t because that’s what the system has sold us.
By strange coincidence, a message from my library this morning alerted me that Gabor Mate’s book has arrived from another branch for me to pick up. Then I read your piece. As I’m 56 and in the midst of a prolonged job search and unemployment, I fear for my health and safety in an extreme way. May need to renew my passport as soon as possible and explore options to exit this impossible country.
Let me know what you think of the book and yes please renew your passport! maybe this prolonged job search is pushing you in another direction? maybe to another country?
We were fortunate to move away from the States about 15 years ago...I had lived abroad and wanted our kids to know there were other ways to live. What I didn’t realize is that things would get crazier there, and by comparison, our lives be so much calmer/better here (Switzerland). I think we won the lottery by moving away then.
I’m now almost 60 and am practicing doing less to experience more. It’s a practice, a process and an unraveling. And, I can’t believe how much easier it is to connect to my inner voice. It felt like a massive risk, to be okay with doing less. One well worth taking. All the best to you in your next chapter.
you def won the lottery! I'm so glad that you have learned to embrace doing less. it took me years to get to that point and i imagine once I live in Italy I realize I haven't made as much progress as I think :-)
Rylla, one of the concepts that pollutes our serenity is the belief that we must always be productive. Instead we should all practice stepping away and doing less. I applaud your “escape” to Suisse.
One of the last lines in “Killing Them Softly” is “AMERICA IS A BUSINESS.” And that’s the problem. Show me any problem in this country that isn’t caused by capitalism out of control. Sure looks to me like that is the foundational problem. Profits over people. We see it everywhere.
Dec 7, 2023·edited Dec 7, 2023Liked by Kirsten Powers
Again, another really interesting read on this topic and I am spending as much time taking in the discussion that follows in the comments section as I am in reading the article itself. Thank you for sharing and I am really impressed with the level of discourse on here.
I want to push a little bit on the question of how accessible a move like this can be for the majority of citizens that are caught up in the situation in the US that you are describing. I know you have described how possible it is and I commend you for encouraging people to feel confident in taking that leap and understanding it may be a possibility for them.
I agree that on the face of it the financial challenge of the move itself is very achievable if you are lucky enough to be well educated, in level or positive equity and have the capacity (physical or otherwise) to actually make the move.
But I think there is an assumption here of an ability to understand the challenge, take those first steps and persist with it successfully. For an average middle class individual who is well educated but unable to grow and prosper in their lives/career etc. I think there is a valid and real choice there to be able to take that step. However, if you are part of a very large cohort who do not have that level of education, perhaps someone who is struggling to even leave their state, city or town.. let alone country... someone that may not have the education needed to handle the linguistic, cultural and legal complexity of a move to another country... someone who may also be living in negative equity on a property or with crippling debt...
...If you were that individual do you believe you would still be in a position to do what you are doing at the moment?
I ask the above with a completely open mind, and also I ask humbly without being an American and truly understanding the situation for the average person or majority of people. I am honestly very curious what you think.
I am deliberately being the Devil's advocate here to try and probe at a feeling I have when reading this. That feeling is that what you are describing is actually a very privileged act when you compare it to what the majority of people are in a position to do. And unfortunately many many people may never even see or understand that opportunity due to their circumstances - which are due (I suspect sadly) to the very systemic failures in the US that you are descibing and escaping.
With this in mind, do you feel that the opportunity you are describing is more specifically suited to perhaps an average middle-class citizen, or do you believe anyone could take this step?
You have alluded to the challenges you are facing at the moment in securing property in Italy and developing a new home on some land (I look forward to the article). I am sure there are many legal ins and outs, complexities in buying property from outside the country, possibly also the planning laws, local regulations etc that you face when building on the land and for this (I guess) you have legal support and advice, perhaps both local in Italy and in the US (and even that relationship may also be challenging!)... I can't help but feel all of that is a reality which is so far removed from someone in the US who is below the poverty line, in a disadvantaged situation and truly struggling.
Again, I think I am possibly off the mark here (and shoot me down if I am!) because I imagine most of your readers could see a move out of the US as a real possibility - but I do think it is important to keep in mind how this impacts in the bigger picture. Does what you are describing not constitute a brain drain or sorts? If the well educated, middle class decide that they want to go elsewhere for a better life you are left with less capacity to actually change the situation you are escaping while the vast majority of citizens who are truly hurting under those conditions are unable to do the same and continue to struggle.
You have described to me already (in our previous discussion) that you can still vote/write/effect change from overseas (which is fantastic) but I would hope deep down that there is a way to truly correct the issues you are describing here without feeling that escape is the answer, however temporary... perhaps I am an idealist but we all want to see an America that is strong, prosperous and in good health, it is good for everyone who believes in progress around the world (even the other rival Super powers as seen in the recent US/China summit) but most of all it is good for its own people. And those who have grown up without ever having the chance at third level education and who may not have been supported as well as they could have will depend on those who did have that chance to make the difference for them and represent them despite all the challenges.
The vast majority of people who leave their countries are not educated or middle class. They come even though they don't speak the language or have any idea how the US works. They are often not only not middle class, but very poor. This is true of most of the people who have and continue to come to the United States and the US does not make it easy for people coming today. I do agree that some people will not be able to relocate to another place whether it is another country or another town for a variety of reasons, but I don't think that means that I shouldn't do it or that nobody else can do it.
Yes I completely understand that migrants often arrive in countries with very little and succeed but this is not exactly the same as what you are writing about here and I wouldn't want to equate the two. You are very much doing this in a controlled and managed fashion with the privilege of keeping one foot in the US and can gradually transition while minimising risk. The migrants that you are describing come with very little else and possibly no language skills, taking often massive risk, are seeking a better life from situations far worse or more challenging than our own and are often sending most of their earnings home to those that couldnt make it.
I understand completely that it is reasonable to say you are also escaping conditions that are unacceptable to you as you've clearly outlined (particularly gun crime - and I would personally add the opioid crisis to that list). However I am wondering if that situation is so bad in your opinion that you believe people in the US should leave everything they own, cross deserts without water, cross seas in a tiny dinghy etc? My feeling is that what you are describing is a Life Choice for those with the privilege of being able to make it rather than a last resort as is the case for so many in the world that cannot do anything else.
I only raised them because you were saying how impossible it is to navigate a new country if you don't speak the language or have money and I am saying people with far fewer resources and less education than my Substack readers do it all the time. I wasn't comparing myself to them and I feel that is pretty clear. You feel very committed to your view and that's great -- i'm not here to convince anyone of anything.
And to be clear, I think it is excellent and you should be doing this. Everyone who can, should consider the opportunity to settle in another country. I am excited to hear how your journey goes and I am massively in favour of what you are doing, particularly because you want to understand this way of life more so you can write about it with more clarity and authority.
Feeling so many levels of this, and even more stress and anxiety because we are raising our children in this environment. It's a terrible blackhole of experiences and expectations, and every month Andy and I look at each other like: WHAT ARE WE DOING.
i know so many people who have ad thee WHAT ARE WE DOING moment. I really feel for people raiising children because that takes all the stress to another level.
What happens when I’m the only one in the relationship who’s had the WHAT ARE WE DOING MOMENT? I’ve been questioning this way of life for some time (I’m Colombian) but my American spouse (who works in govt) doesn’t believe it’s such an urgent thing. There’s a misalignment and I’m burdened by it. I feel like I don’t have options. (We have a 2 yo).
My husband didn't share my sense of urgency either but I made it pretty clear that for my health I could not stay here. There were many arguments but I didn't let up. He was very resistant to this but eventually came around. We are using some of our retirement savings to buy the land and build in Italy, so it is also an investment (we can rent out in high season to make money off of it). I think sometimes we have to be creative. It's much harder when you have a child, esp a young child though at least they are not in school yet. But I do think you need to advocate for yourself. I don't think it's okay for a spouse to take the attitude of "I'm fine here so you should be too." Is it possible for you to spend part of the year in Columbia at least even if your husband stays in the states? or to go back and forth so at least you get a break?
Been seriously considering moving to Mexico… But I also have a wonderful situation where I live in New Mexico of 11 acres and a house. we built in a pretty rural area and I just think I need to stick and fight all the terrible stuff that’s going on. I am a retired schoolteacher in my 70s, so maybe I will become a prepper :-)
everyone has to do what they feel called to do. While a lot of my interest in Italy is to have a better, less stressful lifestyle I also want to have thee first hand experience of living in a place like that for journalistic reasons. I think if I'm going to be a critic of the US way of life I need to experience another way of life -- the ups and downs, not just the ups which is all I experience now as a visitor on vacation.
I woke up this morning for work and read this not having read your prior essay. I have dreamed of leaving the US for so long but I am middle class with no savings. I know I want to find ways to really make solid plans to leave for my mental health and wellbeing. Thank you for opening my mind to this very real possibility.
I think you might be surprised to find out how much easier it will be to live on other countries when it comes to financial strain. It does help if you can work remotely as I can—is that a possibility for you?
Yes it is and I do have some savings, just not a lot. I have been thinking I’d eventually work completely remotely and move to a very rural area but my dream really has always been to expatriate. Congrats on your move to Italy!
There may still be places in US of you are willing to go rural. When we were looking we needed to be near a major airport or at least one that had nonstop flights to DC bc of my husbands job (and mine at the time). If you don’t have those constraints you will have more options tho still the same problem w health care costs unfortunately
I think the crux of the problem is systemic. And that means working remotely or moving to a rural area is only a single facet of the greater problem. Humane and meaningful income, benefits, and some measure of self-determination not tied to a workplace are essential.
Kirsten, I applaud you for making this move and finding the strength to do what you need to do for your physical and mental health. My husband and I could easily afford to move out of the country, what keeps us here is family. We have an extremely small family now, our son, daughter in law and soon to be grandson. We currently live 1.5 hours away from them and sometimes that feels like too far. I did resonate with your column, thank you.
This country feels increasingly like the Titanic; lauded for all its grandeur, but destined for doom. And I increasingly feel like I’m remaining with the band. Congrats on the lifeboat. :)
I was originally born in Venezuela and moving to the States and becoming an American was once a dream come true. Now the state of everything makes me so sad and it no longer feels like I'm in a land of opportunity. I'm fortunate in being able to work remotely although I don't know how my employer would feel about it being overseas. My one issue: my dog. The though of putting him on a transatlantic flight terrifies me. For the record, I would consider moving to the UK. Would love to know what your and others' thoughts are on that location...
I’ve heard from some British people that life there has gotten a lot harder, though obviously they have more of a social safety net than in the United States. Regarding the dog – – we have a Shih Tzu and she’s been to Italy four times. We put her under the seat in a bag. If your dog is bigger than that, you would have to put them underneath and that is super stressful but if it was only one flight, I think it would be worth it if it meant moving to a place where you could have a better life.
Kirsten, thanks again for sharing some of your story and significant health challenges over many years of stress in the midst of great professional success. I completely agree with your analysis of the potential destructiveness of current American culture and especially within more high-powered segments of professional society like living in the DC area!
But let me add another dimension to what we experience by quoting from a poem that says “If an expert does not have some problem to vex him, he is unhappy! He who wants followers seeks political power. She who wants reputation, holds an office. Where would the gardener be if there were no more weeds? What would become of business without a market of fools? Produce! Get results! Make money! Make Friends! Make changes! Or you will die of despair!”
That sounds like an anti-capitalist rant but it is a Taoist poem written in the 4th Century BC! The obvious point is that although anxiety and stress are often produced by external cultural pressures like American capitalism, there is also an internal drive among humans to achieve in even passive cultures that unless restrained also causes deep anxiety and despair.
It may indeed be necessary for a time to escape the external pressures like moving to Italy but I think we also need to help each other curb our inner compulsions that might manifest themselves wherever we live. Taking time for adequate rest and times of solitude, and limiting our consumption of goods and media plus being part of a spiritual community that loves God and neighbor are great antidotes to the ill effects of our culture. These practices are not easy to maintain but they are a viable path of health that can also sustain us. But may your move be wonderfully restorative!
I understand what you are saying -- but I think of it slightly differently. I think that we need a purpose or passion (Ikegei in Japanese). I think we all need that and work is not bad in itself. What is the problem is overwork and burnout caused by working in a society with not guardrails for your health or social safety net if you fall. We can not do any of the things mentioned in that poem if we are not getting the basics--sleep, time with friends and family, and connection with community. I won't stop working when in Italy because I am passionate about what I do. But I won't be stressed worrying about how to survive financially or whether I'm going to be bankrupted by a medical emergency or not have enough money for care as I get older and need more help.
Thanks for your additional comments. I think I understand and agree with you for the most part. But I also think that overwork and burnout is not just caused or controlled by society but they can also be the result of a codependent relationship of society’s stresses with our inner compulsions. So we can better cope with our external stresses by trying to minimize them or by letting go of our inner compulsions - or both! Grace and peace to you.
The myth of normal is required reading for anyone struggling in navigating todays world 👏🏼 Thank you for sharing your insights and experience...it’s a huge act of courage to stand up for your needs in a world that is constantly disconnecting us from ourselves.
TY Eliza! That book really scared me straight. I had been talking a big game about changing my life but started taking concrete steps after reading that book.
My husband is interviewing for jobs in France and Germany, I'm interviewing for jobs in Switzerland, and the backup option is having him quit his job and we move to Spain on my newsletter salary with a digital nomad visa. We'll see how it shakes out!
This is EXACTLY what I’m dealing with. After realizing everything I was working so hard for 1) wouldn’t make me happy and 2) was causing serious health issues, I took a step back. But I’m finding taking a step back isn’t enough. How do I step OUT of this? Take a year off work? Find a job I can do without feeling this existential burnout? It’s almost like I’ve had this taste - and I want MORE. I want more freedom and more rest very primally. I guess like everything good in life it won’t come easy. But is there anyone who has done this within the US? Is the ONLY answer leaving?
I am Italian-American and was raised in both places. I am now 44 and my partner and children and I have also lived many years in both places. I am not and never have been rich though. During my childhood years, my family's income was far below the poverty line. And in my adult life, my partner and I have always lived on one income because early on we made the decision to have me spend my time unschooling our kids. My partner works remotely and the kids schooling being so flexible has been a privilege that I am so grateful to have. However all that said, we don't have anything worked out financially for retirement and healthcare here in the States is always precarious at best.
I love Italy with all my heart and it truly is home for me. However my partner struggled to learn the language during our years there and feels more at home in the States, so for now we are back in a very small town in North Carolina. We do still own a very small home in the Abruzzo region of Italy and this year we bought a property here in NC with our two oldest daughters. We share the big house on the property with our two still minor kids and our oldest daughter and her soon to arrive fiance. Our second daughter is in a little cottage on the back of the property. Our kids are all gen z, and owning homes seemed so out of reach for them in this economy. By sharing our housing expenses, we are all able to breath a little easier, work a little less and travel more. I know that multi-generational housing wouldn't be for everyone but it really works for us, and now we all can't wait for the eventual grandchildren to get here.
In Italy we have the concept of the "slow life", and obviously I'm biased to believing that is best achieved in Italy, home of the best food and with healthcare covered. However even if you have no desire to live abroad, it is still completely possible to incorporate that concept into your life. Affordable small towns still exist in the States, ours is just one hour from a large metro area with an International airport. In my opinion the "slow life" can be less about where you live and more about making life choices intentionally. Be very deliberate in choosing how to spend your time, and live with more people and less stuff. Obviously not everyone wants to forego having a career to unschool their kids, and not everyone wants to buy a house with their adult children, that is just what has worked for us. Don't be afraid to make some unconventional choices and forge your own path. Everyone can figure out what does work for them and live their own "slow life".
I agree people should forge the unconventional path that works for them!!!
I think there must be people who have done this in the US. We actually first tried to find a place in the US to move but unfortunately we didn’t start looking until 2021 and by then prices even in places that used to be really livable had exploded. I do know there are still nice places though that are livable. Cleveland is one of those places. Or at least that’s what I’ve heard. If you feel strongly, this is something you want to do I would start talking to other people about it and doing research. I think there are a lot of people who feel the way we feel and people found different solutions than the one I found.
Kirsten, thank you for this article. Your thoughts are personally meaningful and your position cogent.
I have spent 41 years in military and federal government employment. I can speak first hand on the culture of unremitting work as part of an American identity or ethos.
I am particulary struck by the accumulated evidence the medical establishment has documented over the years, as your article alludes to. Despite that, we literally continue to kill outselves.
I spent my youth and career being flogged by this bloody Calvinist work ethic. I compensated by being being an able worker and manager but refusing to go the “extra mile” as an expected matter of course.
I learned quickly the reward for excellence was exploitation and then flogging to exhaustion.
And I feel guilty for saving myself.
I lived in Europe for ten years and am well aware of the gulf between the US and European work models. By and large, they are a humanitarian establishment by comparison.
I spent a further 21 years working for INS/USCIS where I came into close proximity with like European organizations. How they treated their own employees in comparison to ours was like a bucket of ice water over the head.
I believe most of us don’t understand how killing ourselves for our employer has become, not widespread, but de rigueur.
Keep up the great analysis of life but don’t let your work or us, for that matter, flog you to insensibility.
So well put: "I learned quickly the reward for excellence was exploitation and then flogging to exhaustion." You have so eloquently summed up the problem here. I wonder if some of us thought--even unconsciously-- that if we were loyal and good employees we would be taken care of since that used to be the social compact without realizing that we would be thrown overboard the minute the shareholders wanted a sacrifice.
There was a time, perhaps in the 50s,60s, and 70s when a career worker could expect a life long career from one company. Perhaps their entire career could be summed up by a “gold watch” at the end but, at least, the contract between employer and employee was one that provided stability and dependability. And something that’s virtually absent today: work that fostered a happy life.
yes and this was before work was your entire life and identity. My parents had this -- they were professors at the University of Alaska for 40 years and worked normal hours and had a life outside of work, even though they were passionate about their work and even though they also often worked all summer because they were archeologists so would have digs in various parts of Alaska.
I don’t think so. This all reminds me of a great article I read on The Atlantic a while back on “workism”. It’s about purpose. Whatever we do for q living is, in the US, the sole source of our purpose, pride, identity. We all want to feel like we belong. The sick thing, in the US, is that we look for that sense of belonging where we shouldn’t because that’s what the system has sold us.
Here’s the article https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/
thanks for the article link i'll take a look!
By strange coincidence, a message from my library this morning alerted me that Gabor Mate’s book has arrived from another branch for me to pick up. Then I read your piece. As I’m 56 and in the midst of a prolonged job search and unemployment, I fear for my health and safety in an extreme way. May need to renew my passport as soon as possible and explore options to exit this impossible country.
Let me know what you think of the book and yes please renew your passport! maybe this prolonged job search is pushing you in another direction? maybe to another country?
We were fortunate to move away from the States about 15 years ago...I had lived abroad and wanted our kids to know there were other ways to live. What I didn’t realize is that things would get crazier there, and by comparison, our lives be so much calmer/better here (Switzerland). I think we won the lottery by moving away then.
I’m now almost 60 and am practicing doing less to experience more. It’s a practice, a process and an unraveling. And, I can’t believe how much easier it is to connect to my inner voice. It felt like a massive risk, to be okay with doing less. One well worth taking. All the best to you in your next chapter.
you def won the lottery! I'm so glad that you have learned to embrace doing less. it took me years to get to that point and i imagine once I live in Italy I realize I haven't made as much progress as I think :-)
Rylla, one of the concepts that pollutes our serenity is the belief that we must always be productive. Instead we should all practice stepping away and doing less. I applaud your “escape” to Suisse.
I wholeheartedly agree. 🙏🏼
One of the last lines in “Killing Them Softly” is “AMERICA IS A BUSINESS.” And that’s the problem. Show me any problem in this country that isn’t caused by capitalism out of control. Sure looks to me like that is the foundational problem. Profits over people. We see it everywhere.
I can't disagree with that!
Again, another really interesting read on this topic and I am spending as much time taking in the discussion that follows in the comments section as I am in reading the article itself. Thank you for sharing and I am really impressed with the level of discourse on here.
I want to push a little bit on the question of how accessible a move like this can be for the majority of citizens that are caught up in the situation in the US that you are describing. I know you have described how possible it is and I commend you for encouraging people to feel confident in taking that leap and understanding it may be a possibility for them.
I agree that on the face of it the financial challenge of the move itself is very achievable if you are lucky enough to be well educated, in level or positive equity and have the capacity (physical or otherwise) to actually make the move.
But I think there is an assumption here of an ability to understand the challenge, take those first steps and persist with it successfully. For an average middle class individual who is well educated but unable to grow and prosper in their lives/career etc. I think there is a valid and real choice there to be able to take that step. However, if you are part of a very large cohort who do not have that level of education, perhaps someone who is struggling to even leave their state, city or town.. let alone country... someone that may not have the education needed to handle the linguistic, cultural and legal complexity of a move to another country... someone who may also be living in negative equity on a property or with crippling debt...
...If you were that individual do you believe you would still be in a position to do what you are doing at the moment?
I ask the above with a completely open mind, and also I ask humbly without being an American and truly understanding the situation for the average person or majority of people. I am honestly very curious what you think.
I am deliberately being the Devil's advocate here to try and probe at a feeling I have when reading this. That feeling is that what you are describing is actually a very privileged act when you compare it to what the majority of people are in a position to do. And unfortunately many many people may never even see or understand that opportunity due to their circumstances - which are due (I suspect sadly) to the very systemic failures in the US that you are descibing and escaping.
With this in mind, do you feel that the opportunity you are describing is more specifically suited to perhaps an average middle-class citizen, or do you believe anyone could take this step?
You have alluded to the challenges you are facing at the moment in securing property in Italy and developing a new home on some land (I look forward to the article). I am sure there are many legal ins and outs, complexities in buying property from outside the country, possibly also the planning laws, local regulations etc that you face when building on the land and for this (I guess) you have legal support and advice, perhaps both local in Italy and in the US (and even that relationship may also be challenging!)... I can't help but feel all of that is a reality which is so far removed from someone in the US who is below the poverty line, in a disadvantaged situation and truly struggling.
Again, I think I am possibly off the mark here (and shoot me down if I am!) because I imagine most of your readers could see a move out of the US as a real possibility - but I do think it is important to keep in mind how this impacts in the bigger picture. Does what you are describing not constitute a brain drain or sorts? If the well educated, middle class decide that they want to go elsewhere for a better life you are left with less capacity to actually change the situation you are escaping while the vast majority of citizens who are truly hurting under those conditions are unable to do the same and continue to struggle.
You have described to me already (in our previous discussion) that you can still vote/write/effect change from overseas (which is fantastic) but I would hope deep down that there is a way to truly correct the issues you are describing here without feeling that escape is the answer, however temporary... perhaps I am an idealist but we all want to see an America that is strong, prosperous and in good health, it is good for everyone who believes in progress around the world (even the other rival Super powers as seen in the recent US/China summit) but most of all it is good for its own people. And those who have grown up without ever having the chance at third level education and who may not have been supported as well as they could have will depend on those who did have that chance to make the difference for them and represent them despite all the challenges.
The vast majority of people who leave their countries are not educated or middle class. They come even though they don't speak the language or have any idea how the US works. They are often not only not middle class, but very poor. This is true of most of the people who have and continue to come to the United States and the US does not make it easy for people coming today. I do agree that some people will not be able to relocate to another place whether it is another country or another town for a variety of reasons, but I don't think that means that I shouldn't do it or that nobody else can do it.
Yes I completely understand that migrants often arrive in countries with very little and succeed but this is not exactly the same as what you are writing about here and I wouldn't want to equate the two. You are very much doing this in a controlled and managed fashion with the privilege of keeping one foot in the US and can gradually transition while minimising risk. The migrants that you are describing come with very little else and possibly no language skills, taking often massive risk, are seeking a better life from situations far worse or more challenging than our own and are often sending most of their earnings home to those that couldnt make it.
I understand completely that it is reasonable to say you are also escaping conditions that are unacceptable to you as you've clearly outlined (particularly gun crime - and I would personally add the opioid crisis to that list). However I am wondering if that situation is so bad in your opinion that you believe people in the US should leave everything they own, cross deserts without water, cross seas in a tiny dinghy etc? My feeling is that what you are describing is a Life Choice for those with the privilege of being able to make it rather than a last resort as is the case for so many in the world that cannot do anything else.
Which is why I am assuming
I only raised them because you were saying how impossible it is to navigate a new country if you don't speak the language or have money and I am saying people with far fewer resources and less education than my Substack readers do it all the time. I wasn't comparing myself to them and I feel that is pretty clear. You feel very committed to your view and that's great -- i'm not here to convince anyone of anything.
And to be clear, I think it is excellent and you should be doing this. Everyone who can, should consider the opportunity to settle in another country. I am excited to hear how your journey goes and I am massively in favour of what you are doing, particularly because you want to understand this way of life more so you can write about it with more clarity and authority.
Feeling so many levels of this, and even more stress and anxiety because we are raising our children in this environment. It's a terrible blackhole of experiences and expectations, and every month Andy and I look at each other like: WHAT ARE WE DOING.
i know so many people who have ad thee WHAT ARE WE DOING moment. I really feel for people raiising children because that takes all the stress to another level.
What happens when I’m the only one in the relationship who’s had the WHAT ARE WE DOING MOMENT? I’ve been questioning this way of life for some time (I’m Colombian) but my American spouse (who works in govt) doesn’t believe it’s such an urgent thing. There’s a misalignment and I’m burdened by it. I feel like I don’t have options. (We have a 2 yo).
It’s hard to operate some days.
My husband didn't share my sense of urgency either but I made it pretty clear that for my health I could not stay here. There were many arguments but I didn't let up. He was very resistant to this but eventually came around. We are using some of our retirement savings to buy the land and build in Italy, so it is also an investment (we can rent out in high season to make money off of it). I think sometimes we have to be creative. It's much harder when you have a child, esp a young child though at least they are not in school yet. But I do think you need to advocate for yourself. I don't think it's okay for a spouse to take the attitude of "I'm fine here so you should be too." Is it possible for you to spend part of the year in Columbia at least even if your husband stays in the states? or to go back and forth so at least you get a break?
Thanks for replying, Kirsten! Definitely something to think about and discuss in more depth.
Been seriously considering moving to Mexico… But I also have a wonderful situation where I live in New Mexico of 11 acres and a house. we built in a pretty rural area and I just think I need to stick and fight all the terrible stuff that’s going on. I am a retired schoolteacher in my 70s, so maybe I will become a prepper :-)
everyone has to do what they feel called to do. While a lot of my interest in Italy is to have a better, less stressful lifestyle I also want to have thee first hand experience of living in a place like that for journalistic reasons. I think if I'm going to be a critic of the US way of life I need to experience another way of life -- the ups and downs, not just the ups which is all I experience now as a visitor on vacation.
I woke up this morning for work and read this not having read your prior essay. I have dreamed of leaving the US for so long but I am middle class with no savings. I know I want to find ways to really make solid plans to leave for my mental health and wellbeing. Thank you for opening my mind to this very real possibility.
I think you might be surprised to find out how much easier it will be to live on other countries when it comes to financial strain. It does help if you can work remotely as I can—is that a possibility for you?
Yes it is and I do have some savings, just not a lot. I have been thinking I’d eventually work completely remotely and move to a very rural area but my dream really has always been to expatriate. Congrats on your move to Italy!
There may still be places in US of you are willing to go rural. When we were looking we needed to be near a major airport or at least one that had nonstop flights to DC bc of my husbands job (and mine at the time). If you don’t have those constraints you will have more options tho still the same problem w health care costs unfortunately
I think the crux of the problem is systemic. And that means working remotely or moving to a rural area is only a single facet of the greater problem. Humane and meaningful income, benefits, and some measure of self-determination not tied to a workplace are essential.
Kirsten, I applaud you for making this move and finding the strength to do what you need to do for your physical and mental health. My husband and I could easily afford to move out of the country, what keeps us here is family. We have an extremely small family now, our son, daughter in law and soon to be grandson. We currently live 1.5 hours away from them and sometimes that feels like too far. I did resonate with your column, thank you.
I understand. Everyone has to do what's best for them. I'm sure it would be even harder to be away once your grandson arrives! Congrats!
This country feels increasingly like the Titanic; lauded for all its grandeur, but destined for doom. And I increasingly feel like I’m remaining with the band. Congrats on the lifeboat. :)
I was originally born in Venezuela and moving to the States and becoming an American was once a dream come true. Now the state of everything makes me so sad and it no longer feels like I'm in a land of opportunity. I'm fortunate in being able to work remotely although I don't know how my employer would feel about it being overseas. My one issue: my dog. The though of putting him on a transatlantic flight terrifies me. For the record, I would consider moving to the UK. Would love to know what your and others' thoughts are on that location...
I’ve heard from some British people that life there has gotten a lot harder, though obviously they have more of a social safety net than in the United States. Regarding the dog – – we have a Shih Tzu and she’s been to Italy four times. We put her under the seat in a bag. If your dog is bigger than that, you would have to put them underneath and that is super stressful but if it was only one flight, I think it would be worth it if it meant moving to a place where you could have a better life.
He’s much bigger 😂 65lbs!
ahhh then not fitting under the seat lol.
Thank you for writing this!! Same story, down to the reactivated EBV. America is broken.
Kirsten, thanks again for sharing some of your story and significant health challenges over many years of stress in the midst of great professional success. I completely agree with your analysis of the potential destructiveness of current American culture and especially within more high-powered segments of professional society like living in the DC area!
But let me add another dimension to what we experience by quoting from a poem that says “If an expert does not have some problem to vex him, he is unhappy! He who wants followers seeks political power. She who wants reputation, holds an office. Where would the gardener be if there were no more weeds? What would become of business without a market of fools? Produce! Get results! Make money! Make Friends! Make changes! Or you will die of despair!”
That sounds like an anti-capitalist rant but it is a Taoist poem written in the 4th Century BC! The obvious point is that although anxiety and stress are often produced by external cultural pressures like American capitalism, there is also an internal drive among humans to achieve in even passive cultures that unless restrained also causes deep anxiety and despair.
It may indeed be necessary for a time to escape the external pressures like moving to Italy but I think we also need to help each other curb our inner compulsions that might manifest themselves wherever we live. Taking time for adequate rest and times of solitude, and limiting our consumption of goods and media plus being part of a spiritual community that loves God and neighbor are great antidotes to the ill effects of our culture. These practices are not easy to maintain but they are a viable path of health that can also sustain us. But may your move be wonderfully restorative!
I understand what you are saying -- but I think of it slightly differently. I think that we need a purpose or passion (Ikegei in Japanese). I think we all need that and work is not bad in itself. What is the problem is overwork and burnout caused by working in a society with not guardrails for your health or social safety net if you fall. We can not do any of the things mentioned in that poem if we are not getting the basics--sleep, time with friends and family, and connection with community. I won't stop working when in Italy because I am passionate about what I do. But I won't be stressed worrying about how to survive financially or whether I'm going to be bankrupted by a medical emergency or not have enough money for care as I get older and need more help.
Thanks for your additional comments. I think I understand and agree with you for the most part. But I also think that overwork and burnout is not just caused or controlled by society but they can also be the result of a codependent relationship of society’s stresses with our inner compulsions. So we can better cope with our external stresses by trying to minimize them or by letting go of our inner compulsions - or both! Grace and peace to you.
The myth of normal is required reading for anyone struggling in navigating todays world 👏🏼 Thank you for sharing your insights and experience...it’s a huge act of courage to stand up for your needs in a world that is constantly disconnecting us from ourselves.
TY Eliza! That book really scared me straight. I had been talking a big game about changing my life but started taking concrete steps after reading that book.
I’m right there with you, my husband and I are plotting our Europe move now!
Do you know which country?
My husband is interviewing for jobs in France and Germany, I'm interviewing for jobs in Switzerland, and the backup option is having him quit his job and we move to Spain on my newsletter salary with a digital nomad visa. We'll see how it shakes out!
those are all amazing options!!! pls keep me posted on what you do!