"I'm talking about the experience of being a parent in today's world." - this is a great point Kristen and I like how you frame it in terms of parents experience rather than parenting advice. I let my daughter sit next to me and read her own book to herself while I read this 😂
Im a dad of a 3 year old and 1 year old. They are just starting to be able to play together on their own and I long for the day when I can tell them to ‘go play outside’ (independently) like my mom said to me and my brother. I do think parents feel pressure to constantly cultivate their kids through activities and personal engagement in a way that my parents didn’t. The economic gains from getting into the “right” school and landing the “right” job in our society may be what’s driving this overinvolvement and helicopter parenting. The side effect is we may be robbing kids of their imagination.
Thanks for your feedback Conor—it makes sense to me that parents are scheduling their kids to do a lot of activities to try to get into a good college (even if it’s messed up kids are out under so much pressure by the US higher education system) but I guess I don’t understand how planning vacations around their desires, or just entertaining them on the weekend helps them in terms of future advancement.
I get that pressure. Both of my sons played very competitive soccer (both state champions multiple times) and I thought it was important for getting into a good college and keeping them away from drugs. Ironically Tim succumbed to the drug temptation anyway, but he enjoyed his college experience, as did Will. We didn’t freak out about catering to their every need because we were all so busy - another problem with current US culture. We need to be able to slow down and love each other more. Just be in each other’s presence vs. the constant challenge to perform and be successful. My Enneagram type 3 didn’t help.
The Enneagram has been so helpful for digging into my inner motives, exposing what is unhelpful and giving some great pointers for how to cultivate more helpful attitudes and behaviors. This year I’m doing a deep dive into the Sermon on the Mount - what a powerful light into my inner motives. For example, there is a whole section on not doing stuff (even good stuff) for the applause of others. As ever, Jesus is an amazing role model of all these principles.
Kirsten - thanks for this commentary. I've just spent a week with my German half-brother, his wife and their young adult son, who trooped to a family wedding, then endured a long drive through the Alps to Lake Garda, and back to Munich - 6 days spent all together, doing what we adults had planned and desired. Never once was my nephew consulted about his wishes. The entire time, I kept imagining any of my three American children accompanying us on such a trip with such seeming patience and ease. I have daughters ages 19 (twins) and a 21 year old; I'm 54. I feel like I was constantly inadequate in my parenting and most of my parenting peers feel the same, even though I know I was MUCH MUCH more involved emotionally with my daughters than my parents were with me. There are an increasing number of conversations about this topic and I am looking forward to reading others comments about this topic. I encouraged a lot of independent play amongst my kids for sure; I was not often on the floor with them as they seemed to revel in their own independent, imaginative play. But compared to mine and my husband's parenting, mine was pretty contactful. I know I felt a huge priority to validate my daughters' emotions, as mine were not validated. I also felt they needed to know their voices mattered, as I didn't feel mine did. So some of the intense parenting was rooted in that natural desire to heal wounds going forward. Kirsten, I appreciate your acknowledgement that your observations come from someone who loves and supports parents but is not one herself. Yours is the only substack I pay for, as I really enjoy your voice and perspective!!!!! Good luck with your Italian Journey - you are inspiring to me :)
Heather, thank you so much for your kind words and for these reflections. I had a similar experience where we had Thanksgiving dinner in Italy last year and there was a 16-year-old that spent I think seven hours with the adults and was completely engaged and I never once saw a phone. I suspected that what you’re saying was probably the case and now I’m hearing that from other commenters, which is that people were/are parenting their children the way they wish they had been parented. I think that makes a lot of sense and I don’t know there’s anything wrong with that or any of the things that you said you were doing. I think actually that the parents of the younger generations are actually great parents at least from what I’ve seen. I just feel like they’re under way too much pressure and many feel overwhelmed and it doesn’t seem to end when the kids become young adults. I should note also that the woman who wrote the original article that I teed this off of actually has children, and very proudly ignores them a lot 😂
I think a lot of us tried to be more present and in tune with our kids then our parents were with us. My kids were the generation to try drugs (not just weed) and I became a helicopter mom during late teens but where there is a will there is a way. My kids have teen to young adult kids now and my daughter called me yesterday to tell me my diligence for her well-being probably saved her life. She tried cocaine apparently and realized if she became an addict it would ruin me. She distinctly remembers changing friends at age 22 so she could have a do-over.
I married at 41. My wife and I had our two girls when I was 43 and 45. I was in secondary education for 34 years as a teacher and admin. My wife and I followed a philosophy of not over-indulging our girls while at the same time providing for them love, consistency and meeting their needs and more than a few of their “wants”. Our biggest challenge raising our girls has always been keeping a healthy balance between saying yes and no. There is nothing easy about parenting. There is no greater blessing in my life and my wife’s life than our daughters. The world is so different today! The principles that I was raised under still hold true today. Sadly so many of those principles are no longer widely embraced by our world.
Thank you for writing this article. I see the guilt of not spending “enough” time with a child due to being a working parent whose child started daycare at four months. As a grandmother to a 19-month-old, I agree with you that the Internet has changed the field. The pressures seem extraordinary for parents these days.
It has always been so crazy to me how much this generation of parents has gotten SO involved. No comparison as to how we were all raised! I wonder if the next generation of parents will shift towards the past......
Loved this article and will share it. Boredom is a fantastic opportunity. My mom would hand me the latest book she just finished and go about her business. Some were the latest Steven King novels, Rosemary’s Baby, later Flowers in the Attic. Of course that evolved into reading contests with my boys where we read series independently but the last book together. Series like Potter, Deltora Quest, Inheritance Cycle. (Of course, “go outside and play”.)
I don’t know. I’ve run into parents who do this but only briefly. I tend to avoid them like the plague since they’re constantly getting interrupted by a kid who needs something.
I needed this reminder, Kirsten. Thank you. Each week, my daughters (ages 9 and 11) and I have one screen-free weekend day. And without fail, I feel the tug to come up with all kinds of things for them to do to fill that time so they don't feel bored. I feel guilty if I see them just laying down, staring up at the ceiling or the sky. I have to constantly remind myself that this peaceful, beautiful boredom we carve out once a week is also the rare time their brains aren't stimulated by screens, noise, and homework, and that it is a gift.
Oh, and I've been scheduling my errands and grocery shopping around them because I know they'd rather not go, even though I (as one of four kids born in under six years) was carted everywhere by my mom and am grateful for it today. (I can still confidently calculate percentages because my mom would quiz us while grocery shopping. "If this jar is $1.49 for 10oz and the other jar is $2.79 for 16oz, which is the better deal?") So thanks also for the reminder that I can bring them along to my things, instead of always catering to what they want to do.
When I read the original article, I felt there was something important generationally involved, which you’ve alluded to.
I wonder if many Late Boomer/Early GenX parents ended up becoming helicopter parents partly because of the unmindful under parenting they themselves received, and so wanted to rectify that for their kids. Combined with constant drip feeding of right wing media scare stories, and the conditions for very well meant over parenting are there.
On the other hand, I’ve just been watching a seminar on neglect, and so reading this article made me think any “mindful under parenting” needs to be very mindful of not straying into narcissistic parenting and neglect.
Elizabeth Young-Breuhl’s book “Childism” is a terrifying read, but very pertinent to this discussion.
i don't know how the underparenting she advocates could ever be construed as narcissistic? it's not narcissistic to have a life that isn't ordered around entertaining your child, especially since children benefit from being bored and learning to entertain themselves.
Maybe that wasn’t a good choice of words. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there is a balance and that depends on the capacity and temperaments of both the parents and the children. Parents have to have their own lives and model that to their children, but they also have to recognise the autonomy of their children too, or we go back to “being seen but not heard” kind of attitude.
I agree the ‘seen not heard’ model was not a good one—i think creating space for children to have their own feelings is a different topic. In the story about the Italy vacation what is so problematic is that the parents are almost definitely overworked and exhausted and they didn’t even get to have a relaxing vacation which can have much more dire consequences than their children being bored b/c their friends aren’t along on the amazing beach vacation in Italy.
It’s an interesting thought that we can learn from what previous generations have done throughout the history of humankind. Wisdom comes from there. I value the time I spent with my parents when they were doing their thing or visiting the people they loved. Much better than playing all those video games, right? It reminds me of the saying that most good values and skills are ‘caught not taught’.
I too, have no children and witnessed for many years of what you are speaking of; I call them Disney parents. I believe possibly, not sure, that part of all this kid focus could have to do with both parents having careers, less time, but more money to buy things and activities, sports, etc. its like investing in the kids in a different way. The Disney parents seems more prevalent to me with shared custody families, when with the weekend parent has the kids they expect to have fun every time since their time with the other parent is shorter and they are not at their regular home where chores and study take place, if they are given that at all. I grew up in the kids are to be seen and never heard, perhaps to the extreme, which is not healthy of course. Parenting education should be top priority as most people will have children, before having children would be ideal…such as a required child development course in high school for example just like math, reading and science are required. Very good post today as children are the future, if we don't get it right, alot is at stake.
I think it is very important to encourage kids to do for themselves, starting at early ages. My 3 year old dressed herself for her 1st day of preschool: stripe top polkadot shorts. She must have seem my instant hesitation because she said: "Mom, look. These color lines match the colors in the dots." She was extraordinarily proud of herself so I caught my suggestion and merely clapped and agreed. I did want to tape a sign on her back saying I DRESSED MYSELF. She turned out to be a woman who has personal style and she did not get that from me.
Also- I think the greatest gift we give our children is the sense that we enjoy them. Not that they are a chore. When we are trying so hard to get it right or be perfect parents, our enjoyment of the experience and privelege of being this persons parent gets lost and sometimes I think that is what they most need. Some early development specialists have cited 30% I believe as The ideal level of attunement.
"I'm talking about the experience of being a parent in today's world." - this is a great point Kristen and I like how you frame it in terms of parents experience rather than parenting advice. I let my daughter sit next to me and read her own book to herself while I read this 😂
perfect! :-)
Im a dad of a 3 year old and 1 year old. They are just starting to be able to play together on their own and I long for the day when I can tell them to ‘go play outside’ (independently) like my mom said to me and my brother. I do think parents feel pressure to constantly cultivate their kids through activities and personal engagement in a way that my parents didn’t. The economic gains from getting into the “right” school and landing the “right” job in our society may be what’s driving this overinvolvement and helicopter parenting. The side effect is we may be robbing kids of their imagination.
Thanks for your feedback Conor—it makes sense to me that parents are scheduling their kids to do a lot of activities to try to get into a good college (even if it’s messed up kids are out under so much pressure by the US higher education system) but I guess I don’t understand how planning vacations around their desires, or just entertaining them on the weekend helps them in terms of future advancement.
Their imagination is everything. Look for the Einstein quote- imagination is more important than intelligence. Run with that!
I get that pressure. Both of my sons played very competitive soccer (both state champions multiple times) and I thought it was important for getting into a good college and keeping them away from drugs. Ironically Tim succumbed to the drug temptation anyway, but he enjoyed his college experience, as did Will. We didn’t freak out about catering to their every need because we were all so busy - another problem with current US culture. We need to be able to slow down and love each other more. Just be in each other’s presence vs. the constant challenge to perform and be successful. My Enneagram type 3 didn’t help.
So hard for a 3!!
The Enneagram has been so helpful for digging into my inner motives, exposing what is unhelpful and giving some great pointers for how to cultivate more helpful attitudes and behaviors. This year I’m doing a deep dive into the Sermon on the Mount - what a powerful light into my inner motives. For example, there is a whole section on not doing stuff (even good stuff) for the applause of others. As ever, Jesus is an amazing role model of all these principles.
Kirsten - thanks for this commentary. I've just spent a week with my German half-brother, his wife and their young adult son, who trooped to a family wedding, then endured a long drive through the Alps to Lake Garda, and back to Munich - 6 days spent all together, doing what we adults had planned and desired. Never once was my nephew consulted about his wishes. The entire time, I kept imagining any of my three American children accompanying us on such a trip with such seeming patience and ease. I have daughters ages 19 (twins) and a 21 year old; I'm 54. I feel like I was constantly inadequate in my parenting and most of my parenting peers feel the same, even though I know I was MUCH MUCH more involved emotionally with my daughters than my parents were with me. There are an increasing number of conversations about this topic and I am looking forward to reading others comments about this topic. I encouraged a lot of independent play amongst my kids for sure; I was not often on the floor with them as they seemed to revel in their own independent, imaginative play. But compared to mine and my husband's parenting, mine was pretty contactful. I know I felt a huge priority to validate my daughters' emotions, as mine were not validated. I also felt they needed to know their voices mattered, as I didn't feel mine did. So some of the intense parenting was rooted in that natural desire to heal wounds going forward. Kirsten, I appreciate your acknowledgement that your observations come from someone who loves and supports parents but is not one herself. Yours is the only substack I pay for, as I really enjoy your voice and perspective!!!!! Good luck with your Italian Journey - you are inspiring to me :)
Heather, thank you so much for your kind words and for these reflections. I had a similar experience where we had Thanksgiving dinner in Italy last year and there was a 16-year-old that spent I think seven hours with the adults and was completely engaged and I never once saw a phone. I suspected that what you’re saying was probably the case and now I’m hearing that from other commenters, which is that people were/are parenting their children the way they wish they had been parented. I think that makes a lot of sense and I don’t know there’s anything wrong with that or any of the things that you said you were doing. I think actually that the parents of the younger generations are actually great parents at least from what I’ve seen. I just feel like they’re under way too much pressure and many feel overwhelmed and it doesn’t seem to end when the kids become young adults. I should note also that the woman who wrote the original article that I teed this off of actually has children, and very proudly ignores them a lot 😂
It’s a complicated time to be a thoughtful, healthy human 😉but community sure helps! 🙏
I think a lot of us tried to be more present and in tune with our kids then our parents were with us. My kids were the generation to try drugs (not just weed) and I became a helicopter mom during late teens but where there is a will there is a way. My kids have teen to young adult kids now and my daughter called me yesterday to tell me my diligence for her well-being probably saved her life. She tried cocaine apparently and realized if she became an addict it would ruin me. She distinctly remembers changing friends at age 22 so she could have a do-over.
What a beautiful testament to your attuned parenting Marylou!!!
Do overs are the best…integrated learning, developing our personal wisdom. We humans learn best the lessons we deeply experience
I married at 41. My wife and I had our two girls when I was 43 and 45. I was in secondary education for 34 years as a teacher and admin. My wife and I followed a philosophy of not over-indulging our girls while at the same time providing for them love, consistency and meeting their needs and more than a few of their “wants”. Our biggest challenge raising our girls has always been keeping a healthy balance between saying yes and no. There is nothing easy about parenting. There is no greater blessing in my life and my wife’s life than our daughters. The world is so different today! The principles that I was raised under still hold true today. Sadly so many of those principles are no longer widely embraced by our world.
Sounds like lucky girls!
Thank you for writing this article. I see the guilt of not spending “enough” time with a child due to being a working parent whose child started daycare at four months. As a grandmother to a 19-month-old, I agree with you that the Internet has changed the field. The pressures seem extraordinary for parents these days.
You've nailed it once again Kirsten, an excellent piece I feel you have directly extracted from my brain 👏🏽
😍
It has always been so crazy to me how much this generation of parents has gotten SO involved. No comparison as to how we were all raised! I wonder if the next generation of parents will shift towards the past......
Our children don't need zombie parents. They need parents that give them an experience of an adult who is actually alive.
Bravo. Our example speaks louder than anything we say. The worst thing we can do is try to live OUR life through our kids.
Loved this article and will share it. Boredom is a fantastic opportunity. My mom would hand me the latest book she just finished and go about her business. Some were the latest Steven King novels, Rosemary’s Baby, later Flowers in the Attic. Of course that evolved into reading contests with my boys where we read series independently but the last book together. Series like Potter, Deltora Quest, Inheritance Cycle. (Of course, “go outside and play”.)
I don’t know. I’ve run into parents who do this but only briefly. I tend to avoid them like the plague since they’re constantly getting interrupted by a kid who needs something.
I needed this reminder, Kirsten. Thank you. Each week, my daughters (ages 9 and 11) and I have one screen-free weekend day. And without fail, I feel the tug to come up with all kinds of things for them to do to fill that time so they don't feel bored. I feel guilty if I see them just laying down, staring up at the ceiling or the sky. I have to constantly remind myself that this peaceful, beautiful boredom we carve out once a week is also the rare time their brains aren't stimulated by screens, noise, and homework, and that it is a gift.
Oh, and I've been scheduling my errands and grocery shopping around them because I know they'd rather not go, even though I (as one of four kids born in under six years) was carted everywhere by my mom and am grateful for it today. (I can still confidently calculate percentages because my mom would quiz us while grocery shopping. "If this jar is $1.49 for 10oz and the other jar is $2.79 for 16oz, which is the better deal?") So thanks also for the reminder that I can bring them along to my things, instead of always catering to what they want to do.
So glad it was helpful! When I was growing up going to to grocery store w my mom was what counted as fun 😂
Jung said, “the most damaging thing for children are the unlived lives of the parents.” Take it from there.
When I read the original article, I felt there was something important generationally involved, which you’ve alluded to.
I wonder if many Late Boomer/Early GenX parents ended up becoming helicopter parents partly because of the unmindful under parenting they themselves received, and so wanted to rectify that for their kids. Combined with constant drip feeding of right wing media scare stories, and the conditions for very well meant over parenting are there.
On the other hand, I’ve just been watching a seminar on neglect, and so reading this article made me think any “mindful under parenting” needs to be very mindful of not straying into narcissistic parenting and neglect.
Elizabeth Young-Breuhl’s book “Childism” is a terrifying read, but very pertinent to this discussion.
i don't know how the underparenting she advocates could ever be construed as narcissistic? it's not narcissistic to have a life that isn't ordered around entertaining your child, especially since children benefit from being bored and learning to entertain themselves.
Maybe that wasn’t a good choice of words. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there is a balance and that depends on the capacity and temperaments of both the parents and the children. Parents have to have their own lives and model that to their children, but they also have to recognise the autonomy of their children too, or we go back to “being seen but not heard” kind of attitude.
I agree the ‘seen not heard’ model was not a good one—i think creating space for children to have their own feelings is a different topic. In the story about the Italy vacation what is so problematic is that the parents are almost definitely overworked and exhausted and they didn’t even get to have a relaxing vacation which can have much more dire consequences than their children being bored b/c their friends aren’t along on the amazing beach vacation in Italy.
It’s an interesting thought that we can learn from what previous generations have done throughout the history of humankind. Wisdom comes from there. I value the time I spent with my parents when they were doing their thing or visiting the people they loved. Much better than playing all those video games, right? It reminds me of the saying that most good values and skills are ‘caught not taught’.
I too, have no children and witnessed for many years of what you are speaking of; I call them Disney parents. I believe possibly, not sure, that part of all this kid focus could have to do with both parents having careers, less time, but more money to buy things and activities, sports, etc. its like investing in the kids in a different way. The Disney parents seems more prevalent to me with shared custody families, when with the weekend parent has the kids they expect to have fun every time since their time with the other parent is shorter and they are not at their regular home where chores and study take place, if they are given that at all. I grew up in the kids are to be seen and never heard, perhaps to the extreme, which is not healthy of course. Parenting education should be top priority as most people will have children, before having children would be ideal…such as a required child development course in high school for example just like math, reading and science are required. Very good post today as children are the future, if we don't get it right, alot is at stake.
I think it is very important to encourage kids to do for themselves, starting at early ages. My 3 year old dressed herself for her 1st day of preschool: stripe top polkadot shorts. She must have seem my instant hesitation because she said: "Mom, look. These color lines match the colors in the dots." She was extraordinarily proud of herself so I caught my suggestion and merely clapped and agreed. I did want to tape a sign on her back saying I DRESSED MYSELF. She turned out to be a woman who has personal style and she did not get that from me.
Also- I think the greatest gift we give our children is the sense that we enjoy them. Not that they are a chore. When we are trying so hard to get it right or be perfect parents, our enjoyment of the experience and privelege of being this persons parent gets lost and sometimes I think that is what they most need. Some early development specialists have cited 30% I believe as The ideal level of attunement.