The first time I heard the definition and difference between jealousy and envy was in Elise Loehnen’s book. It was such a lightbulb moment for me then I tucked it away. Then was feeling some kind of way about a close friend only to realize it is envy and not jealousy. A friend reminded me that in French the word “envie” means longing or desire. Then I sat with that and now ask myself what do I desire that the other person has. This article is so great and a wonderful reminder that envy is not just a bad thing but helps define your desires for yourself. Thank you!
Oh I love that—longing and desire. I actually learned of this concept quite some time ago, but was unable to really apply it in my life. I understood it conceptually, but I was too afraid to take the steps outside my comfort zone. It took a while to get to that point and then as I said once I did, the results were so fast in terms of envy dissipating that it was kind of insane!
It's very interesting to read the definitions of the word envie in a french dictionary, which expresses desire.
The definition of the french verb envier is simililar to the verb envy in English.
Thank you for writing this. Personally I'm in lack of envy and jealousy because at age 9 I did experience jealousy so violently that I realized I never wanted to feel that again. It saved me a lot of suffering 🙏🏽.
On Our Best Behaviour is such a tremendous book for challenging the norm around the seven deadly sins. The envy chapter I do believe is one of the most powerful for all the same reasons you articulate in this piece. It’s a flashing neon sign to our unconscious desires and a route to transformation if we let it. I especially found your realisation that you don’t want her career, instead it was the audacity to forge an individual path that you envied. Deep work there! Thanks for sharing.
This is such a helpful, vulnerable piece, Kirsten! I have noticed that people either hate or love Elizabeth Gilbert. And I’ve suspected a lot of the hate was envy. You’ve unpacked that very well here. As well as the agonies of being in the throes of envy. I’m sure we all can relate. It’s wonderful to see here the path out of it as well!
Thank you Anne! I guess I don’t know anybody who hates her pretty much everybody I know really in Myers her, so I wasn’t totally aware of that dynamic w her. I can say that I actually never hated her. I just sort of felt this nagging weird I don’t like her feeling. It would’ve been clearer if I hated her because I do recognize those kinds of strong emotions as my Shadow. I think I had convinced myself that I just didn’t connect with her but actually she really triggered me. It’s amazing how we can delude ourselves.
It's a great post and an important, interesting subject.
One of the worst side effects of envy is that it reinforces limiting beliefs on what we're capable of doing - manifesting -experiencing. This is because when we envy, we remain in some imaginary competition, one where we lose (always) and suffer (always).
Instead when we view ourselves as the beautiful and unique individuals we are, and act from that place, we find peace, raise our vibration and can look at others as guides and mentors.
I love that you've stepped into your unique beautiful power and are allowing the warm light of being yourself to guide you.
Brava! I have re-stacked many quotes from this post.
In her book, 'Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed', Lori Gottlieb writes about this too: "Follow your envy—it shows you what you want."
The more that human beings learn and understand this, the more enlightened our society will become. And it's great to simply be able to recognize the feeling of envy as it arises, not to feel guilty because one may have been conditioned envy is one of the 7 deadly sins. Buddhists recognize envy as an opportunity to practice muditā – sympathetic or altruistic joy, gladness at the good fortune of others.
I read this article first thing this morning, and I’ve been thinking about it ever since. I even regurgitated it to my husband on our early morning walk in an attempt to turn it on myself and examine my own feelings of envy.
I really appreciate how vulnerable you were by sharing this, Kirsten. I think everyone has felt a bit of envy when it comes to Elizabeth Gilbert. Ever since she turned a sad, traumatic life event into a lucrative publishing contract that paid her to travel the world. We loved that for her, but many of us wanted to be her.
What’s interesting is that I read your Substack for the very reason that I’ve followed Gilbert for so long. You make me think about certain aspects of life by being open and vulnerable, and you’re not afraid to be honest with your readers about where you are.
And I envy you. Not knowing all that much about your life, I see that you’re transferring your life to a country I adore and making a living as a creative. As Brené Brown says in Atlas of the Heart when she explains envy, “I’m envious, but not the bad kind. Swear.”
Mostly, I love reading how other writers make the creative life work for them, and I try to learn from it. This essay was a perfect example of the way you allow your readers to examine the messy parts of themselves.
Thanks for this. This is all very thoughtful. I feel like there actually are different kinds of envy or maybe it’s jealousy. I don’t know I can never keep them straight. There’s definitely times where I could say. Oh, I’m jealous that person gets to do something or had done success but I’m not triggered. I don’t dislike them or judge them, for example nor do I feel bad about myself bc they have something I don’t. But then there is this other category, which I write about today where it is associated with some sort of emotional activation, whether it’s an aversion or something like that and that’s what I think we need to pay attention to because in those cases, I think it’s because it’s leading us somewhere we aren’t willing to see. Does that make sense? So, for example, the first time I came across somebody who got to live in Italy I felt a jealousy that wasn’t emotionally activated, but that was more like oh, this is some thing I want. I could see it. I couldn’t see that I wanted to be a full time writer in control of my topics until I contended w my envy of Gilbert. It was completely buried.
P.S. My husband and I are headed to Italy soon to explore the north. We found a reasonably priced plane ticket, had some time off, and decided to explore some areas we’ve never been to.
Well, we have very few things planned other than a flight to Venice (not staying in Venice, though), a place to stay near Verona, and a car to get around in. We have considered driving up to the Dolomites, visiting vineyards, exploring Lake Garda, and that’s as far as we’ve gotten. Mostly, we are looking to relax and take in culture.
the dolomites are amazing! we also really love Treiste and then the wine country in Friuli is great—we have stayed here a lot, about an hour from Treiste in the country…lots of amazing wine makers: https://www.lasubida.it/en/stay-with-us/our-houses/
I chuckled when I saw the title to this post. I had just commented on Elizabeth Gilbert's post with Rob Bell. I admitted that I was a bit irritated that the both of them said far more eloquently what is the theme of my Substack and the book I am working on. There is no hint of competition since my Substack is so tiny as to barely exist, as is the small circle of folks who happen to read what I write. I concluded that just because someone else says way more eloquently than I what I understand about the subject at hand, doesn't mean I should stop saying/writing on it. I have no thunder to be stolen. It is validating to hear people who do have thunder rumbling the same truths as I.
This essay is a clear demonstration of how we can be powerful and vulnerable at once. The longing and desire we have to walk in our truth can enlighten, or bring literal and figurative illness. Envy is sickness, and the patriarchy compounds our conditioning further, telling women to fear their truth, to ignore it so much that when we see other women living righteously we condemn it, almost always while claiming to be feminists and “for” other women. Kudos for putting this out into the world, we all need beacons of light to remind us that our words and creative works matter. 🩵💪
I follow a lot of great Substacks but your essays stand out - I come back and re-read them, sometimes multiple times, because I’m so impressed by the wisdom that they contain. I don’t hate Gilbert and I don’t think I envy her, but I’ve noticed I’ve a tendency to think that people who are successful in that particular way are writing obvious platitudes and don’t need as much talent as their proflie justifies. And then I go back to their work and realise how difficult it is to make something seem that simple. That’s why they are up there, and I’m not there yet.
The sound of pieces falling into place! Terrific reflection, thank you. Suddenly, the image came up of the scene at the end of The Officer and a Gentleman when Lynette finally applauds as Richard Gere carries Debra Winger out of the paper factory! 👏👏👏
I envy you, Kirsten. I envy your persistence in your journey of self-awareness. I envy your gift of incite and articulation. I envy your courage. I envy your engagement with the public. I envy your network of friends. I envy how you are becoming deeper and deeper aware of yourself and that you are able to share that with the world, like a beacon, guiding the way for others.
I loved this. It makes so much sense. Thank you for being so honest and writing about something that I think a lot of us feel but would feel too 'ashamed' to say!
Thanks Kate! Yes I was a little scared to publish this but I’ve learned to ‘trust the process’ as they say and part of integrating the Shadow is outing it. It thrives in secret and shame.
What a helpful article and what courage it must have taken to be so transparent. Thank you! I almost didn't read it at first because I don't feel like I am a particularly envious person. But upon reflection I am uncovering at least sufficient Golden Shadow material to realize I need to dig deeper. I especially love this line: "Just the act of showing up and writing about what lit me up and connecting with my comparatively small community was all it took for the envy to disappear, not just with Gilbert but across the board."
Thank you for this article, Kirsten! It's such a good topic. I've been drafting an article on something similar, more related to how we can feel envious of other people's finances. In it, I also ask why I often feel envious when people just seem to have it "easy", while I seem to be struggling to juggle so many different tasks plus motherhood, but I also need to uncover the root cause of my envy. Is it really about finance or down to a feeling of being trapped and unable to have the freedom to do what I really want? I feel like I'm also living a "misaligned life". It's up to me to make changes.
I think this is a complicated one because economically so many people struggle and also mothers don’t get enough support so I think it’s normal to look at somebody who has some economic margin or more support and feel jealous. But the issue is actually a systemic issue that has to be solved at a systemic level. As a society, we need to be providing people with more support. I’m interested to see what you end up writing. It sounds like you are looking for more ease in your life, and I wonder if there’s a way to find that in a more creative way – – the way so many Americans are moving to less expensive countries to create more margin. That’s not an option for everybody but I’m just throwing that out there as something that people have discovered that is way outside of the box.
Yes, absolutely! I couldn’t agree more, and that’s something I weave into most of my articles: we need to shift the blame from individuals to society. The question of whether to leave the big city for a slower life is one that I constantly have at the back of my mind. And that pull is getting stronger. Let’s see…
This was a wonderful essay, Kirsten. It spoke to the journey I have been on the past few years, coming to know my shadows including the Golden Shadow and I can totally understand your envy of Elizabeth Gilbert (who among us women writers wouldn't!) and the way you drilled down to the truth of it was rooted in abundance, not scarcity. Projections and not living in awareness of our shadows is what keeps us stuck in scarcity mindset. Like you, I am aware of that now and that awareness makes all the difference. Envy of another becomes a matter of curiosity. Hmmm...I wonder, what can this envy, these feelings that are so uncomfortable, teach me? I am so grateful to have more than one foot in the second half of life these days, a soul-led rather than ego-led life. It's borne of a lot of hard work and deep thinking about my own patterns of behavior and reaction. But at the other side of that hard work is such freedom! I feel more playful and alive than I have in a very long time. It might have taken 60+ years but never mind....life has a lot more left in store for us. See you soon for our Artists Way discussion!
The first time I heard the definition and difference between jealousy and envy was in Elise Loehnen’s book. It was such a lightbulb moment for me then I tucked it away. Then was feeling some kind of way about a close friend only to realize it is envy and not jealousy. A friend reminded me that in French the word “envie” means longing or desire. Then I sat with that and now ask myself what do I desire that the other person has. This article is so great and a wonderful reminder that envy is not just a bad thing but helps define your desires for yourself. Thank you!
Oh I love that—longing and desire. I actually learned of this concept quite some time ago, but was unable to really apply it in my life. I understood it conceptually, but I was too afraid to take the steps outside my comfort zone. It took a while to get to that point and then as I said once I did, the results were so fast in terms of envy dissipating that it was kind of insane!
It's very interesting to read the definitions of the word envie in a french dictionary, which expresses desire.
The definition of the french verb envier is simililar to the verb envy in English.
Thank you for writing this. Personally I'm in lack of envy and jealousy because at age 9 I did experience jealousy so violently that I realized I never wanted to feel that again. It saved me a lot of suffering 🙏🏽.
Once you observe and see your emotions for what they are, part of you, you handle.
On Our Best Behaviour is such a tremendous book for challenging the norm around the seven deadly sins. The envy chapter I do believe is one of the most powerful for all the same reasons you articulate in this piece. It’s a flashing neon sign to our unconscious desires and a route to transformation if we let it. I especially found your realisation that you don’t want her career, instead it was the audacity to forge an individual path that you envied. Deep work there! Thanks for sharing.
This is such a helpful, vulnerable piece, Kirsten! I have noticed that people either hate or love Elizabeth Gilbert. And I’ve suspected a lot of the hate was envy. You’ve unpacked that very well here. As well as the agonies of being in the throes of envy. I’m sure we all can relate. It’s wonderful to see here the path out of it as well!
Thank you Anne! I guess I don’t know anybody who hates her pretty much everybody I know really in Myers her, so I wasn’t totally aware of that dynamic w her. I can say that I actually never hated her. I just sort of felt this nagging weird I don’t like her feeling. It would’ve been clearer if I hated her because I do recognize those kinds of strong emotions as my Shadow. I think I had convinced myself that I just didn’t connect with her but actually she really triggered me. It’s amazing how we can delude ourselves.
“Admires” her not Myers her 😂
I Myers her too 🐋
Yes, so interesting! And it’s so important to investigate these feelings and find their roots, making the unconscious conscious.
It's a great post and an important, interesting subject.
One of the worst side effects of envy is that it reinforces limiting beliefs on what we're capable of doing - manifesting -experiencing. This is because when we envy, we remain in some imaginary competition, one where we lose (always) and suffer (always).
Instead when we view ourselves as the beautiful and unique individuals we are, and act from that place, we find peace, raise our vibration and can look at others as guides and mentors.
I love that you've stepped into your unique beautiful power and are allowing the warm light of being yourself to guide you.
Much love and light on your adventurous path. 🧡
Thank you Diana! I agree it’s yet another way to stay stuck
Brava! I have re-stacked many quotes from this post.
In her book, 'Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed', Lori Gottlieb writes about this too: "Follow your envy—it shows you what you want."
The more that human beings learn and understand this, the more enlightened our society will become. And it's great to simply be able to recognize the feeling of envy as it arises, not to feel guilty because one may have been conditioned envy is one of the 7 deadly sins. Buddhists recognize envy as an opportunity to practice muditā – sympathetic or altruistic joy, gladness at the good fortune of others.
I finally learned this about three years ago—could have used the info so much sooner!!!
At least you're sharing the info now! May it serve the evolution of human consciousness❤️🙏🕊️
I read this article first thing this morning, and I’ve been thinking about it ever since. I even regurgitated it to my husband on our early morning walk in an attempt to turn it on myself and examine my own feelings of envy.
I really appreciate how vulnerable you were by sharing this, Kirsten. I think everyone has felt a bit of envy when it comes to Elizabeth Gilbert. Ever since she turned a sad, traumatic life event into a lucrative publishing contract that paid her to travel the world. We loved that for her, but many of us wanted to be her.
What’s interesting is that I read your Substack for the very reason that I’ve followed Gilbert for so long. You make me think about certain aspects of life by being open and vulnerable, and you’re not afraid to be honest with your readers about where you are.
And I envy you. Not knowing all that much about your life, I see that you’re transferring your life to a country I adore and making a living as a creative. As Brené Brown says in Atlas of the Heart when she explains envy, “I’m envious, but not the bad kind. Swear.”
Mostly, I love reading how other writers make the creative life work for them, and I try to learn from it. This essay was a perfect example of the way you allow your readers to examine the messy parts of themselves.
Thanks for this. This is all very thoughtful. I feel like there actually are different kinds of envy or maybe it’s jealousy. I don’t know I can never keep them straight. There’s definitely times where I could say. Oh, I’m jealous that person gets to do something or had done success but I’m not triggered. I don’t dislike them or judge them, for example nor do I feel bad about myself bc they have something I don’t. But then there is this other category, which I write about today where it is associated with some sort of emotional activation, whether it’s an aversion or something like that and that’s what I think we need to pay attention to because in those cases, I think it’s because it’s leading us somewhere we aren’t willing to see. Does that make sense? So, for example, the first time I came across somebody who got to live in Italy I felt a jealousy that wasn’t emotionally activated, but that was more like oh, this is some thing I want. I could see it. I couldn’t see that I wanted to be a full time writer in control of my topics until I contended w my envy of Gilbert. It was completely buried.
P.S. My husband and I are headed to Italy soon to explore the north. We found a reasonably priced plane ticket, had some time off, and decided to explore some areas we’ve never been to.
exciting! which areas are you planning on visiting?
Well, we have very few things planned other than a flight to Venice (not staying in Venice, though), a place to stay near Verona, and a car to get around in. We have considered driving up to the Dolomites, visiting vineyards, exploring Lake Garda, and that’s as far as we’ve gotten. Mostly, we are looking to relax and take in culture.
the dolomites are amazing! we also really love Treiste and then the wine country in Friuli is great—we have stayed here a lot, about an hour from Treiste in the country…lots of amazing wine makers: https://www.lasubida.it/en/stay-with-us/our-houses/
I chuckled when I saw the title to this post. I had just commented on Elizabeth Gilbert's post with Rob Bell. I admitted that I was a bit irritated that the both of them said far more eloquently what is the theme of my Substack and the book I am working on. There is no hint of competition since my Substack is so tiny as to barely exist, as is the small circle of folks who happen to read what I write. I concluded that just because someone else says way more eloquently than I what I understand about the subject at hand, doesn't mean I should stop saying/writing on it. I have no thunder to be stolen. It is validating to hear people who do have thunder rumbling the same truths as I.
This essay is a clear demonstration of how we can be powerful and vulnerable at once. The longing and desire we have to walk in our truth can enlighten, or bring literal and figurative illness. Envy is sickness, and the patriarchy compounds our conditioning further, telling women to fear their truth, to ignore it so much that when we see other women living righteously we condemn it, almost always while claiming to be feminists and “for” other women. Kudos for putting this out into the world, we all need beacons of light to remind us that our words and creative works matter. 🩵💪
yep— all of this!!!
Check out Elise Loehnan’s book - the price women pay to be good and the seven deadly sins. It’s an empowering read and dives deep into this.
Yes I loved that book!
I follow a lot of great Substacks but your essays stand out - I come back and re-read them, sometimes multiple times, because I’m so impressed by the wisdom that they contain. I don’t hate Gilbert and I don’t think I envy her, but I’ve noticed I’ve a tendency to think that people who are successful in that particular way are writing obvious platitudes and don’t need as much talent as their proflie justifies. And then I go back to their work and realise how difficult it is to make something seem that simple. That’s why they are up there, and I’m not there yet.
Wow Miranda that means so much to me. Thank you 💜
The sound of pieces falling into place! Terrific reflection, thank you. Suddenly, the image came up of the scene at the end of The Officer and a Gentleman when Lynette finally applauds as Richard Gere carries Debra Winger out of the paper factory! 👏👏👏
I envy you, Kirsten. I envy your persistence in your journey of self-awareness. I envy your gift of incite and articulation. I envy your courage. I envy your engagement with the public. I envy your network of friends. I envy how you are becoming deeper and deeper aware of yourself and that you are able to share that with the world, like a beacon, guiding the way for others.
I loved this. It makes so much sense. Thank you for being so honest and writing about something that I think a lot of us feel but would feel too 'ashamed' to say!
Thanks Kate! Yes I was a little scared to publish this but I’ve learned to ‘trust the process’ as they say and part of integrating the Shadow is outing it. It thrives in secret and shame.
Definitely! I’m so glad you did. I thought it was just me…
Def not just you. The compare/despair trigger is powerful.
…currently exploring and doing my best to ditch it!
What a helpful article and what courage it must have taken to be so transparent. Thank you! I almost didn't read it at first because I don't feel like I am a particularly envious person. But upon reflection I am uncovering at least sufficient Golden Shadow material to realize I need to dig deeper. I especially love this line: "Just the act of showing up and writing about what lit me up and connecting with my comparatively small community was all it took for the envy to disappear, not just with Gilbert but across the board."
Thanks Leenie!
Thank you for this article, Kirsten! It's such a good topic. I've been drafting an article on something similar, more related to how we can feel envious of other people's finances. In it, I also ask why I often feel envious when people just seem to have it "easy", while I seem to be struggling to juggle so many different tasks plus motherhood, but I also need to uncover the root cause of my envy. Is it really about finance or down to a feeling of being trapped and unable to have the freedom to do what I really want? I feel like I'm also living a "misaligned life". It's up to me to make changes.
I think this is a complicated one because economically so many people struggle and also mothers don’t get enough support so I think it’s normal to look at somebody who has some economic margin or more support and feel jealous. But the issue is actually a systemic issue that has to be solved at a systemic level. As a society, we need to be providing people with more support. I’m interested to see what you end up writing. It sounds like you are looking for more ease in your life, and I wonder if there’s a way to find that in a more creative way – – the way so many Americans are moving to less expensive countries to create more margin. That’s not an option for everybody but I’m just throwing that out there as something that people have discovered that is way outside of the box.
Yes, absolutely! I couldn’t agree more, and that’s something I weave into most of my articles: we need to shift the blame from individuals to society. The question of whether to leave the big city for a slower life is one that I constantly have at the back of my mind. And that pull is getting stronger. Let’s see…
I so need to read this - it's been eating away at me of late... looking at others and going "why not me?" THANK YOU!
This was a wonderful essay, Kirsten. It spoke to the journey I have been on the past few years, coming to know my shadows including the Golden Shadow and I can totally understand your envy of Elizabeth Gilbert (who among us women writers wouldn't!) and the way you drilled down to the truth of it was rooted in abundance, not scarcity. Projections and not living in awareness of our shadows is what keeps us stuck in scarcity mindset. Like you, I am aware of that now and that awareness makes all the difference. Envy of another becomes a matter of curiosity. Hmmm...I wonder, what can this envy, these feelings that are so uncomfortable, teach me? I am so grateful to have more than one foot in the second half of life these days, a soul-led rather than ego-led life. It's borne of a lot of hard work and deep thinking about my own patterns of behavior and reaction. But at the other side of that hard work is such freedom! I feel more playful and alive than I have in a very long time. It might have taken 60+ years but never mind....life has a lot more left in store for us. See you soon for our Artists Way discussion!